[Kosy123]

Edmonton always seems to struggle with 'ranking' articles -- either we're ignored completely, lumped in with Calgary, or a victim of a flawed methodology (like this one).

But most people rightly called out the article for being out of touch and elitist. Affordability is at crisis levels for many people and Victoria/Vancouver shouldn't be at the top.

North Vancouver is absolutely liveable and a great place.

Unfortunately I'm not the son of a yacht magnate from Monaco so I can't even qualify to live there. Victoria/Vancouver shouldn't be at the top at all for these. It's a glaring insult to the housing crisis and those who suffer from that issue.

 

[David A]

I'm sure Monaco is nice and probably very "livable" too. Not sure why affordability is no longer considered part of livability by many of those people who do those rankings.

They seem detached from reality. I don't know what planet they live on.

 

[David A]

Dow has had a massive presence in Fort Saskatchewan for many years, it is continuing to invest in the billions on this and more projects. Now is the time for whoever is asleep at the wheel in the mayor's office, Edmonton Global, or whatever organization to start pitching and wooing Dow on moving their head office from Calgary to Edmonton.

Absolutely none of their operations, assets or facilities are in Calgary, this is a great opportunity to grab a W for downtown on the back on what's happening in Fort Sask.

God knows Calgary doesn't hesitate to make moves like that.

Exactly - I have wondered for a long time why the heck is there head office not here when most of their operations are. Could someone at Edmonton Global please give that their attention?

 

[northlands]

Exactly - I have wondered for a long time why the heck is there head office not here when most of their operations are.

Because geographic proximity is operational assets is only a small piece to the puzzle unfortunately. Clustering with like similar industry firms takes far priority.

Look at IOL. They have a massive refinery in Edmonton, a large conventional oil play in Cold Lake, and then their monster Kearl Lake mining operation. Where is their HQ?

That said, Edmonton Global should be placing huge emphasis on trying to get companies like Dow up here. No question. And they should be going after similar companies in the Fort Sask region as well. A good example is Linde Canada--they're supplying the hydrogen and nitrogen gas for this plant. Their HQ is way out in some business park in Missauga. If they relocated their HQ here, suddenly the case for Dow to move up here makes a ton more sense.

 

[David A]

My perspective, and perhaps it should be Edmonton Global's too, is I that look at the situation raised as an opportunity to expand and diversify employment here.

So I don't think we should start by trying to rationalize or accept the current situation. I'm sure there are historical and other valid reasons for where the head office is located, but over time things change and one of them is if operations elsewhere expand and take on a growing importance. So hope we don't shut down this idea before more more serious discussion or consideration happens. If we do, I feel we are limiting ourselves.

 

[northlands]

I disagree. Blindly stating this is an opportunity to expand and diversify employment here means nothing and accomplishes nothing without actual reasoning and substance, and how do you achieve that without understanding the current situation of why things are? Edmonton Global giving a fancy presentation to Dow top brass with the main takeaway being "spend your money and resources to relocate your HQ to downtown Edmonton because your plant is close by!" is not going to cut it because as noted, proximity to operational assets is only worth so much. There needs to be a valid business case outlining the other competition and financial advantages of making a move like that to Edmonton.

The Alberta Government will never assist with moving any company already HQ'd in Alberta to Edmonton (like Dow), but they will assist with bringing companies HQ'd out of the province into Alberta. Leverage the U of A's hydrogen research department + a joint effort by Edmonton Global and a GoA entity like Alberta Innovates and get hunting. Look at a company again like Linde Canada--get them setup with an office in downtown Edmonton and have the GoA go dollar for dollar with them to fund hydrogen R&D at the U of A. Build the momentum in that hydrogen biz ecosystem here and give Dow (and other companies) a lot more reasons to move their decision makers here.

 

[Yeggy]

True, but the Journal hasn't had a dedicated business columnist for over a decade I believe. It was a major reason I stopped subscribing. The Herald still has.

Even more oddly none of the provincial political columnists are Edmonton based either. One Herald columnist, while competent is way past normal retirement, IDK maybe they just don't want to pay him a huge severance.

In my opinion the Journal is somewhat just a masthead for stories recycled from the Herald and elsewhere. There is little local coverage any more.

Dont forget about David Staples… thats who we get…. David Staples.

make sure to sub to Taproot and fight for the CBC.

 

[David A]

I disagree. Blindly stating this is an opportunity to expand and diversify employment here means nothing and accomplishes nothing without actual reasoning and substance, and how do you achieve that without understanding the current situation of why things are? Edmonton Global giving a fancy presentation to Dow top brass with the main takeaway being "spend your money and resources to relocate your HQ to downtown Edmonton because your plant is close by!" is not going to cut it because as noted, proximity to operational assets is only worth so much. There needs to be a valid business case outlining the other competition and financial advantages of making a move like that to Edmonton.

The Alberta Government will never assist with moving any company already HQ'd in Alberta to Edmonton (like Dow), but they will assist with bringing companies HQ'd out of the province into Alberta. Leverage the U of A's hydrogen research department + a joint effort by Edmonton Global and a GoA entity like Alberta Innovates and get hunting. Look at a company again like Linde Canada--get them setup with an office in downtown Edmonton and have the GoA go dollar for dollar with them to fund hydrogen R&D at the U of A. Build the momentum in that hydrogen biz ecosystem here and give Dow (and other companies) a lot more reasons to move their decision makers here.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and you seem quite emphatic in yours. So I wonder what you are basing them on. Do you work at Edmonton Global or a similar organization. Are you speaking on their behalf?

As for "allowing" this, is there an actual law preventing a company moving within in Alberta? I've never heard of it, but if so, this must not have been in effect when say Shaw relocated. If not, we should not live in fear of what the provincial government might think. An Edmonton agency's objectives are to promote our city, not to try placate another level of government.

There are always no shortage of people who come up with excuses to do nothing and try nothing. I suppose its easier, but the results are also predictable. You achieve nothing. This is exactly the way of thinking that holds us back.

 

[Yeggy]

Just want to get in here to emphasize how big this Dow project is. This is a behemoth amount of money being spent in the Edmonton area and is huge for the regional economy. It might not be the trendy lattes and power lunches some use as a measure of success, but make no mistake this will accelerate the growth of the entire capital region and is a massive win.

Agreed, The USA is sucking up so much of the investment capital, this likely is one of the biggest investment announcements in the country this year.

 

[Yeggy]

Very interested as well. I would suspect there will be Dow engineering/design teams working out of Fluor's new sublease office in ATB so if there ever was a time to make a push for greater office expansion into Edmonton, now is the time.

Question is: what advantages can Edmonton offer here over Calgary? Proximity to their new shiny plant is great, but one of the clear advantages Calgary has is being able to rub shoulders with the decision makers that they're partnering with i.e. Wolf Midstream. Civic pride and desire is great but there has to be something more to make it make sense on their end.

Ideally the Alberta Government would play a vital role for courting Dow to set up shop here and be close to the legislative decision makers of energy and environmental policy, but our rulers will sooner pay for an expanded office in Calgary than ever give a nod to Edmonton.

The energy regulator is based out of Calgary… not Edmonton.

 

[Yeggy]

Edmonton always seems to struggle with 'ranking' articles -- either we're ignored completely, lumped in with Calgary, or a victim of a flawed methodology (like this one).

But most people rightly called out the article for being out of touch and elitist. Affordability is at crisis levels for many people and Victoria/Vancouver shouldn't be at the top.

Our “safety” numbers tend to hurt us too, but there is no factoring into the equation that stripping out populations for communities like St Albert and Sherwood Park concentrate our “safety” issues. Lord knows how many members of these communities come to Edmonton buy their drugs/sex or start fights in our nightclubs. All of which effect our “safety” numbers.

 

[IanO]

Grains of salt for sure, but these get exposure, media coverage and rightly or wrongly help to change perceptions...

 

[MacLac]

Let me tell everyone how it works! I've been in the Oil and Gas industry for almost 20 years and have either worked for or dealt with: BP, Shell, Suncor, EnCana, CNRL, Arc, Tourmaline, 7 Gens, Apache, Strath, Paramount, Nexen, Devon, Conoco etc etc and it all comes down to 1 simple FACT. The fact is, is that YYC is THE Oil and Gas Capital of Canada - we cannot and will never take that away from them. It is what it is and we have to accept it. I've asked the question a Million times to Vice Presidents of some of these companies and they say, "MacLac, all the HO's are in YYC for (simplicity) - they like and desire all being together in 1 city, particularly in Downtown. A VP wants to get out of his chair and hop in a cab and go see his buddy in his the tower next to his. This ALSO applies to the service companies also having the HO's in YYC - ie, Schlumberger, Weatherford, Nabors, Ensign etc. They want and like it this so that they are TOGETHER in one DT. Makes sense doesn't it?
However, this doesn't mean that they're better than us? Guess where the the boots on the ground come from? YEG - we far outstrip workers in the patch 4-1 over YYC. Service yards and field offices we've got and that's good. Guess where all the modules and rigs are made? Guess where the transportation is out of? The benefits of being a 'blue collar" city far outweigh any benefit of their white collars.

 

[Gronk!]

That's OK, let Calgary be the Oil & Gas Capital of Canada.
Edmonton can be the Hydrogen Capital of Canada - that is, if the local leaders can wake up and play their cards right.

 

[northlands]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and you seem quite emphatic in yours. So I wonder what you are basing them on. Do you work at Edmonton Global or a similar organization. Are you speaking on their behalf?

As for "allowing" this, is there an actual law preventing a company moving within in Alberta? I've never heard of it, but if so, this must not have been in effect when say Shaw relocated. If not, we should not live in fear of what the provincial government might think. An Edmonton agency's objectives are to promote our city, not to try placate another level of government.

There are always no shortage of people who come up with excuses to do nothing and try nothing. I suppose its easier, but the results are also predictable. You achieve nothing. This is exactly the way of thinking that holds us back.

I certainly don't work for Edmonton Global, and I speak solely on behalf of my own opinions. As I assume you do as well.

Like all of us Albertans (nevermind Edmontonians) we have heard the "we need to diversify the economy!" schtick about a million times but almost never with any sort of actual plan or substance behind that statement and it starts to frustrate me to no end. That is the kind of thinking that holds us back, thinking by just saying "diversify!" it will magically happen for us. We have to be realistic. Edmonton Global works off of our tax dollars, and their results have continually been lackluster while Edmonton's (and downtown specifically) corporate culture continues to nosedive, so if they're going to take a crack at this, do it right and do it in a way that has the highest likelihood of achieving real results.

It's the same thinking in The Quarters. Spend a bunch of civic money on niceties thinking things will happen just that easily, while ignoring the harsh reality of why it's going nowhere.

I never said the Alberta Government will not "allow" a company not to move their HQ. My point is simple: The Alberta Government can be a very important ally for bringing companies into Edmonton. However, the Alberta Government has little to nothing to gain by pushing to have a company move their HQ from Calgary to Edmonton (and with this UCP government, they in fact have votes to lose doing that). Thus, it makes sense to work with the province and leverage what they will assist with to better the odds of bringing companies to setup shop in Edmonton. No placating needed.

Anyway, we can argue till we're blue in the face on this front but at the end of the day we're both just posters on a web forum. I certainly appreciate your passion to see Edmonton succeed and grow and I don't mean to poopoo on that. Just thoughts from a balcony here.