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Yeah FutureMayor, why did you bother? Was provincial and federal support promised at some stage, then withdrawn?
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I'm flatterd that you think I have a say on the decision making process, but I don't..lol, however, I'm meeting with Dalton on Sunday morning in Toronto and you can bet that this will be on top of my agenda.

I believe a solution will be found in the end. A letter will be submitted before next Friday and the details of deficit coverage will be settled later.

Louroz
 
Re: expo

Ask Dalton why a subway to VCC rather than downtown.
 
Re: expo

"Ask Dalton why a subway to VCC rather than downtown."

better take a map
 
I'm going to suggest taking the $700 million for the VCC subway to the middle of nowhere and using it for Expo 2015 in the Portlands instead. Money Problem solved.

Louroz
 
Re: expo

I wonder, if expos are so useless, then why do other cities seem to want them? An expo is a big attraction for a city; it draws people and naturally "markets" the city. It is an event that suggests international connections, which is something that people think Toronto possesses. Why not try to build on this?

I don't see anything wrong with using expo to market the city and spur waterfront activity. It beats Walmart. And note that there is no natural law that assumes a deficit will automatically result from hosting this event.

As for "chearleading" expo and the suggestion that those who can be construed as doing so as being nothing more than "wusses," this is nothing more than a condescending attitude of the snobbish-minded gripping to an illusion that they are some how better than all of this.
 
Re: expo

Yeah, so many cities are fighting over the right to host an Expo. |I

Izmir, would have won it by default if Toronto officially pulls out. Milan hears about Toronto's problems and now makes an official public statement that they will bid because they know with Toronto's absence they will win over Izmir...lol..it's quite laughable.

I'm not against our city bidding for Expo since it will help speed up development of the waterfront but I just really don't care for the event itself and the amount of debt incurred for such an out of date event that won't provide the amount of international exposure as some of your are making it out to be. Talk about extra wishful thinking!!
 
Re: expo

I'm for it because it's a catalyst for development. It's a key to the federal safe.

Yes, it will provide international exposure. Not to the extent of an Olympic Games, but Toronto will be on newspapers, travel magazines and tv's around the world.

Aside from giving us a boost for redevelopment and a time limit in which to accomplish everything, one of the most important factors is that it will pump pride into the hearts of Torontonians.
One thing I notice about our citizens is they consider Toronto the place where they live. Home is where they were born or where they emigrated from. During World Youth Day, Torontonians were proud of their city. That's the kind of mentality our city badly needs.
 
Re: expo

I agree with you Bizorky, but even more so regarding the Olympics. Why do such major cities as London and New York etc, already established and so on, still seem to want the games? Personally I'd rather forgo the expo thing because it does seem a little 'over' as an idea, and continue to focus on an eventual Olympic bid.
 
Re: expo

Personally I'd rather forgo the expo thing because it does seem a little 'over' as an idea, and continue to focus on an eventual Olympic bid.
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Waiting for the Olympics is pointless. With Vancouver getting it in 2010, Toronto won't have a realistic shots for decades, probably long after the waterfront is scheduled for completion. If a big event is what it will take to get the various levels of government to invest in the city, the Expo is something that we can bid on now, will happen relatively soon and can be a real catalyst for waterfront development.
 
Re: expo

I am not sure why everyone simply assumes that some great infrastructure is going to be left over at the end of Expo. Sure, there is a chance that a subway line could be built. But what happens if construction costs start to spiral and a tram line is built instead? What happens at the end of Expo when the land is empty? Is the TTC going to keep operating a subway or tram line to nowhere? Does it get mothballed until development occurs? Will the TTC cover the costs of a nonfunctional line or will some special provision be made? Will the roads and sewers that are built be of any use to new development that occurs, or, will some of it have to just be ripped up in the end to be rebuilt to properly service whatever new development takes place?

What happens if at the end of Expo no development takes place? I somewhat doubt that the Expo team is going to concern themselves with post-Expo uses. Will it have been worthwhile if the site just sits empty for 5, 10, 15 years while all the money spent of infrastructure is wasted?

I really don't see how Expo is going to help jump start development in that area. If anything, I could see it stunting development. If the land is going to be unavailable for a decade at the very least, why is anyone, be it developers, planners, or the city, going to even concern themselves with it. By the time Expo is over and the land has been cleared of its remnants, it will be 2017.

I am not suggesting that no good can come of this. What I am suggesting is that if the land is going to be put to good use afterwards and infrastructure utilized it cannot simply be assumed that by having an Expo everything will work out. There needs to be a very detailed, and specific plan in place that addresses the lands from 2017 on and post-Expo uses planned for from day one. Perhaps FutureMayor has something to say about this and in the secret rooms of Expo planners some grand plan for Toronto's version of a Canary Wharf is unfolding. But unless this is taking place, I think the hopes of some wonderful afterlife for the site are really overplayed.
 
Re: expo

Antiloop:

I don't think anyone is suggesting that everything will work out perfectly, but the potential to accomplish some great things is there. People are hungry to see some major things accomplished and the Expo is seen as a means of getting there.

A lot of planning and work is necessary to ensure it's truly beneficial, but I think it's very much a possibility.
 
Re: expo

But the potential is also there right now. You allready have plans developed and I believe even some work underway for the Bayfront area and the TWRC has done a lot of work studying and developing plans for the area. Once the first areas begin to rise and the area starts to take shape it becomes far easier to keep pushing new development further and further into the Portlands area.

If Expo does go ahead, what are the chances that the land may be locked for a decade and the progress that has been made slows or even comes to a halt?

I would support the event if there were actual plans for making the most of the post-Expo area. But right now, there are not, and I cannot bring myself to assume that somehow everything will work out just fine in the end.
 
Re: expo

Antiloop:

I imagine it wouldn't affect the timing that much. Both East Bayfront and West Don Lands are projecting what, 15-20 years to full built out. There is also Regent Park redevelopment to contend with. None of these would be affected by the Expo bid.

I think the TWRC is currently working on precinict planning for the Portlands - and the Expo could serve as the faciliting factor for infrastructural needs in the area.

AoD
 
Re: expo

Have to agree with the auntie loop on this one.

The same bloody discussion has happened before and another decade passed. Mega-projects and jump-starting is code for "we don't know what the **** we're doin' even though we have EA's underway and we've hired the best planners outside of Toronto.

I'm now convinced that (props to the past-Paul Bedford, author), this city has 3 terrified over-worked bureaucrats with no pension running the entire planning department... when we what we need is one boss with vision and power, and 25 others with skills.

Any idiot knows how to jump start a neighbourhood. You just need cable(s).
 
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