[Darren B]

Sure you can - most cities do exactly this. It might be a dumb move, but not half as dumb as some existing TTC policies about transfers.

Don't confuse a bad idea, with an impossible idea - particularily where the bad idea is the norm in most places.

Yeah, Im with Nfitz on this. Metrocards in NYC record the transfer. You swipe at your next entrance into the system and in green lights your transfer or denies you entry. Hopefully the Presto card will incorporate that logic.

 

[CDL.TO]

I think selling air rights makes so much sense that I haven't seen a single person question the wisdom of it. Too bad that the TTC dragged their asses so much on it that the condo boom seems to have passed them by. Though, by the time that they finish their plan for Eglinton station we'll probably be in another boom.

 

[Darren B]

I think selling air rights makes so much sense that I haven't seen a single person question the wisdom of it. Too bad that the TTC dragged their asses so much on it that the condo boom seems to have passed them by. Though, by the time that they finish their plan for Eglinton station we'll probably be in another boom.

Even in a weak economy, that land still remains prime real estate. Its ontop of a subway. If I were looking for a condo I'd first look for one with a direct connection to the subway, any station.

 

[Darren B]

Practically speaking, no, you can't, because you'll require too much staff. The TTC would have a far lower cost-recovery ratio doing it that way, and lower ridership. The TTC would have to back to zone-fares if they were to do that.

When you think about the crowding that would result if every TTC bus at Finch, in addition to the army of other buses from 905-land that run to Finch, you'd have a problem keeping the station safe. It's not designed to accomodate such traffic. None of the non-core stations are (and even the core ones are really struggling), because we have fare-paid loading areas. It is these fare-paid loading areas that allow the small fare-gates since it only needs to be large enough to accomodate walk-in ridership. Otherwise you'd have much wider fare collection areas with at least double the staff as is commonly seen at the downtown core stations. You cannot have that across the system at every station, it is far too wasteful in cost.

Rail you dont need the staff. I gave the example of NYC's metrocard, where its swiped at a turnstyle and the transfer is recorded on it. It either permits the rider through or charges a new fare, depending on the circumstance. It needs no new staffing what so ever, and the ATU113 will be against this along with any other automation

 

[Promagstyle]

Fare Evasion

The Transfer Trick: I have seen people do this, their buddy pays the fare and then asks for a transfer, which you are entitled to, they quickly go to the back of the bus if it is not full or open the nearest window away from the drivers view and toss the Transfer out the window. Letting his buddy to pick up the fallen transfer on the ground, for a free $2.75 ride.

Playing dumb: The bus leaves a subway station and within five minutes the first connecting bus stop to another route is passed with no passengers to pick up or drop-off. A young man gets up and walks to the front of the bus and I over hear the entire conversation, "Can I have a transfer please?" "Where did you get on this bus?" "Uh, at the station" "Why didn't get a transfer at the station?" "Cause I forgot" "Oh, so you forgot, now a-days people are forgetting everything eh." *tears off a transfer* *driver slams on the brakes causing the young man to bump into the farebox and then gives the transfer to the young man who asked for it*

The backdoor trick: The bus is at crush load capacity people are getting on the front and people are getting off the back of the bus. A person sneaks in from the back, but the driver doesn't notice cause he/she is paying attention to the farebox and handing out transfers.

 

[jenny_zhang]

It's an obvious typo. She meant to type fare. Operators aren't responsible for collecting fines, and they'd never halt service for the collection of a fine either.

You are correct, sir. I meant fare, sorry for the confusion.

 

[markel]

In Christchurch, New Zealand when you visit the main bus station the doors remain locked up to the point when the bus actually arrives.

Then the doors slide open at the exact area where the front and rear doors of the bus are. There isn't enough space to enter the bus except from inside the station waiting area that is already pre-paid.

When a bus is not loading you could wander all over the bus bay area and not gain access to the pre-paid area to scam a ride.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Some of the more creative ways to cheat fares that I've seen were people who used to flash a fake Metropass (usually a plastic card that was the same basic colour as that month's Metropass) to the ATU 113 hack who was often too bored to pay attention. Luckily now that Metropasses have a little more sophisticated design with a colour gradient on them, this is harder to do.

Friends of mine in Mississauga told me that back in the 90s there was a way to peel a two-sided ticket apart so that you would essentially have two "tickets" that could pass through the reader. They claimed that this was the reason they added the cross-hatch to the ticket design, thereby rendering it impossible to tear apart without ripping. I don't know if this story was BS, though.

Finally, a typical - and very easy - way to cheat the system in Ottawa was to throw in just one ticket (child fare) instead of the usual two (adult fare). With the farebox stuffed with little red tickets, how could they tell? I really hope they changed their ticketing system because you didn't exactly have to be a cunning criminal mastermind to pull this one off.

 

[ShonTron]

Friends of mine in Mississauga told me that back in the 90s there was a way to peel a two-sided ticket apart so that you would essentially have two "tickets" that could pass through the reader. They claimed that this was the reason they added the cross-hatch to the ticket design, thereby rendering it impossible to tear apart without ripping. I don't know if this story was BS, though.

Brampton had this too - I was in a high school which was incredibly isolated from anything else around, but there was a regular route that served the school plus two specials. The tickets for Brampton were incredibly cheap and simple, and I've heard of the two-for-one special as well.

 

[junctionist]

I know one person who found a similar jacket to the ones TTC employees get. He said that sometimes he would get free rides wearing it .

 

[nfitz]

Why even discuss the bad idea? Railization dismissed it, and rightfully so.

He rightfully so dismissed it, but his stated reasons for doing so didn't hold water.

The reason for this is that Jane used to be on the boundary of two fare zones. Transferring from the bus to the subway required you to pay another fare. When they eliminated fare zones, I guess they didn't want to pay to bring the bus bays into the fare-paid zone.

Wow! It's amazing how long something like that keeps going, without anyone thinking to change it.

 

[CDL.TO]

Wow! It's amazing how long something like that keeps going, without anyone thinking to change it.

Lesouris's explanation isn't exactly right. After all, Royal York and Islington stations were built at the same time beyond the fare boundary and have fare-paid bus terminals, while Runnymede isn't fare-paid and was inside the boundary.

It has to do with the design of the station. The way they built it there is no room for a fare barrier on the ground level, and people access the station through the bus terminal.

So, the question is: why didn't the TTC expropriate more property in Bloor West Village for full-size stations with bus terminals when they built the subway? Politics or something else?

 

[Dilla]

The Transfer Trick: I have seen people do this, their buddy pays the fare and then asks for a transfer, which you are entitled to, they quickly go to the back of the bus if it is not full or open the nearest window away from the drivers view and toss the Transfer out the window. Letting his buddy to pick up the fallen transfer on the ground, for a free $2.75 ride.

Wat.

You can't use a transfer from the vehicle you just got onto get onto that vehicle. In fact, you can't use it on that route in any instance.

 

[GraphicMatt]

I always thought the most common form of fare evasion were the people who just stuff a handful of change - mostly nickels and dimes -- (which probably doesn't total more than 60 cents) into the farebox and move on, knowing the ticket booth person/bus driver doesn't really have the time nor inclination to count.

I guess this is slightly balanced out by dopes like me, who - when I don't have tokens on me -- end up paying $3 a fare because, seriously, who carries quarters on them any more?

 

[Admiral Beez]

Doesn't seem right. The driver shouldn't be paying the full fine, just the fare. I'd be very concerned that the driver would be pocketing the fine, and I wouldn't pay either!

This makes no sense. First of all, why would the driver be paying the fine. Second of all, if the driver did pay the fine, how could the driver pocket the fine, since they just paid the bloody fine. Can UT set up a language test for all members upon registering?