innsertnamehere
Superstar
Those look like rather old plans, likely predating AODA. I imagine they will be updated to be compliant.
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- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
steveintoronto
Superstar
Both excellent points! Either there's a huge amount of bluff and blind reckoning on Metrolinx' part (legal first, engineering after), or there's some huge piece of info we're not privy to.
I've looked at those drawings many times over the years, and scratched my head. They are almost a decade old, and in that time *boring techniques* have come a long way. And elevators. I surmise that there's a better way of doing it than projected in those drawings.
Bear in mind that the TTC subway tubes were bored through under those tracks and the Barrie line from Dundas West station box almost to Lansdowne. The soil type is known and obviously stable enough to host two more smaller tubes coming from the east to the subway platform ends. Escalators and elevators can then be installed from the present Metrolinx properties, and even connected to the proposed Loblaws redevelopment.
Just got in, will dig later. Btw: For anyone trying to get an honest weather forecast of late, Environment Canada's Toronto forecast has been almost bang-on for last few days, while the others just called for "rain" or worse. Got in some good miles I wouldn't have if I'd trusted the commercial forecasts.
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KevinT
Active Member
Any updates or photos of the triple tracking of the line over the Desjardins canal in Hamilton? I'm going into withdrawal...
Allandale25
Senior Member
Would also love to see some pictures of any progress! Given how fast they seemed to be working, I'd assume by now the third track is installed? Maybe the last piece is to install the switch/junction trackage?
crs1026
Superstar
There has not been a single construction worker on site at Hamilton in a long time. Latest version I heard is, ML and their contractor were not ready for the last work window that had been agreed upon with CN. CN has its own work program to get done, and isn't prepared to turn circles around ML's availability, so having missed the window ML now has to wait until CN has a new window to offer.
- Paul
- Paul
Allandale25
Senior Member
Thanks Paul. Great insights.
A couple of quick questions to clarify:
- Does "Hamilton" in this case run from Bayview Junction to the Confederation Station site (and yard)?
- How long are the windows usually?
- What work program does CN have? Is it also in Hamilton?
- How long does Mlx need to finish the job? What's left to do?
Fully realize you may not have the answers.
crs1026
Superstar
I was referring to the entire stretch from Bayview to Stuart (West Harbour), which is ready for track. The Hamilton to Confederation stretch needs the basic civil structural work completed (bridges, culverts, grading) but it is a more recent project so isnt as far along.
I'm sorry, but I'm not at my computer this week otherwise I would offer some pictures. Here's my sidewalk superintendant analysis.
Basically, the whole West Harbour- Bayview stretch is now graded and a certain amount of new track has been laid at the Hamilton end. The new interlocking at Stuart is installed and commissioned, but the tracks are not yet in the final configuration there. The new signals are erected but not wired or cut in, except at Stuart.
What would likely come next is to tackle the interlocking at Hamilton Jct, which needs to be extensively reconfigured to add a new track through it. This will require new crossovers as well as relocating the connections to the CP line. The Ham Jct/Desjardins interlocking is pretty complex and I would expect a whole new configuration with plenty of new switch panels, a new signal bungalow containing a whole new interlocking 'machine', and all new wiring throughout. Typically that kind of interlocking replacement takes blocks of concerted around the clock effort - often a long weekend or successive weekends are used - with the line possibly totally shut down for much of that work block.
Also, the section from Hamilton Jct to Bayview will have to be laid, and insert a couple crossovers and switches at the Bayview interlocking.... a whole second work block, I would expect.
Then there is a certain amount of track shifting to achieve the final configuration. And then the signals have to be wired, tested, and placed in service. And the track must be tamped and surfaced to allow full speed operation.
CN would need at minimum to supervise the work and in particular seems to like their own signals personnel to handle things. This would likely require a lot of weekend overtime for those people. They have their own projects - a lot of the older CTC has been replaced over the past few years. And they have been doing the GO extension up the Bala Sub. They may draw people from around Southern Ontario, but there are only so many hours in the work year.
My guess - It's likely not until 2018 that this kind of scheduling could be made to happen.
- Paul
I'm sorry, but I'm not at my computer this week otherwise I would offer some pictures. Here's my sidewalk superintendant analysis.
Basically, the whole West Harbour- Bayview stretch is now graded and a certain amount of new track has been laid at the Hamilton end. The new interlocking at Stuart is installed and commissioned, but the tracks are not yet in the final configuration there. The new signals are erected but not wired or cut in, except at Stuart.
What would likely come next is to tackle the interlocking at Hamilton Jct, which needs to be extensively reconfigured to add a new track through it. This will require new crossovers as well as relocating the connections to the CP line. The Ham Jct/Desjardins interlocking is pretty complex and I would expect a whole new configuration with plenty of new switch panels, a new signal bungalow containing a whole new interlocking 'machine', and all new wiring throughout. Typically that kind of interlocking replacement takes blocks of concerted around the clock effort - often a long weekend or successive weekends are used - with the line possibly totally shut down for much of that work block.
Also, the section from Hamilton Jct to Bayview will have to be laid, and insert a couple crossovers and switches at the Bayview interlocking.... a whole second work block, I would expect.
Then there is a certain amount of track shifting to achieve the final configuration. And then the signals have to be wired, tested, and placed in service. And the track must be tamped and surfaced to allow full speed operation.
CN would need at minimum to supervise the work and in particular seems to like their own signals personnel to handle things. This would likely require a lot of weekend overtime for those people. They have their own projects - a lot of the older CTC has been replaced over the past few years. And they have been doing the GO extension up the Bala Sub. They may draw people from around Southern Ontario, but there are only so many hours in the work year.
My guess - It's likely not until 2018 that this kind of scheduling could be made to happen.
- Paul
KevinT
Active Member
Thanks very much for the insights Paul!
raptor
Senior Member
Vaughan is not giving up on Concord:
Bid Number: RFP17-188
Bid Name: CONCORD GO CENTRE SECONDARY PLAN COMPREHENSIVE TRANSPORTATION STUDY
Bid Status: Open
Published Date: Thursday September 7, 2017 04:00:00 PM
Bid Closing Date: Monday September 25, 2017 03:00:00 PM
Question Deadline:: Friday September 15, 2017 03:00:00 PM
Bid Number: RFP17-188
Bid Name: CONCORD GO CENTRE SECONDARY PLAN COMPREHENSIVE TRANSPORTATION STUDY
Bid Status: Open
Published Date: Thursday September 7, 2017 04:00:00 PM
Bid Closing Date: Monday September 25, 2017 03:00:00 PM
Question Deadline:: Friday September 15, 2017 03:00:00 PM
Megaton327
Senior Member
Nor should they. If York Region is to be serious about transit, the Viva rapidway should connect with the Barrie line here. Good to see them working on it!
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Any chances of getting enough work done to start up the Niagara 2018 seasonal train season with a West Harbour stop? Deadline is Victoria's Day 2018.
It only requires a fix for essentially a 100 meter section. Yes, many dependancies. Yes, desire for combined contract for whole stretch. But, but... #elxn2018 !!!
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DonValleyRainbow
Senior Member
I second this. This is a real GO station that can help build the GTHA rapid transit network, and provide some relief to the University subway line.
Unlike that other GO station in the middle of nowhere...
crs1026
Superstar
Anything is doable with money. Alas, I don't see any sign that this is being worked on. I wonder what utilities are buried under that 100 meter stretch. It may only look simple from above.
- Paul
robmausser
Senior Member
Absolutely, and we need to quash any absurd reports that these stations will "make people coming from Barrie suffer" because their train will take longer to get to union because these stops will add more time to their train trip.
NO IT WON'T. Your train won't be stopping at these stations. In fact, RER will make your train trip express and quicker as it will most likely bypass stations downtown that it currently does stop at.
So quicherbitchen.
The same goes for Lawrence East station on the Stouffville Line.
The stations won't even be long enough to accommodate a 10-12 car GO train.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Let's be clear....people were not bitching about....it was identified in the studies that ML commissioned....surely in the mandate for the study they would have included the operating environment that they anticipated using?