muller877
Senior Member
I thought the only reason they want to keep Mimico was for 50 GO Transit employees a day can walk to the Willowbrook train yard.
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- Thread starter drum118
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I thought the only reason they want to keep Mimico was for 50 GO Transit employees a day can walk to the Willowbrook train yard.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
I've also seen RER saying first stop of diesel express to Hamilton is Burlington.
Basically electrified RER is allstop to Burlington, and diesel RER is express to Burlington and allstop afterwards. If it takes the West Harbour route, then potentially it could be hourly to StCat. To make commute time feasible, it would have to be literally express to Burlington.
That's what I saw in the RER business case.
All subject to change, of course.
Metrolinx 2041 RTP proposes 15-min allstop RER to downtown Hamilton. This was emphasized -- Metrolinx intends eventual 15-min electric service to Hamilton "after 2025" (meaning time range 2025-2041). That was said by them when I went to a Hamilton consulation at the Hamilton Public Library, which was very well organized by Metrolinx employees, including assistive services for the deaf (I am a deafie) including closed captioning.
Now....
Knowing Niagara GO is being worked on. Based on further speculation based on Niagara GO plans and Metrolinx 2041 RTP, it could then be hourly diesel (or dualmode) RER to St. Catharines (plus Niagara Falls during peak, using guaranteed liftbridge slots). To keep that practical commute times, you literally need express to Burlington, just like what it already says in the RER Business Plan. This isn't mentioned in the 2041 RTP, but it makes a hell lot of sense. Send the frequent electrics as a downtown-to-downtown service, and send the hourly diesels to St. Catharines.
CN/CP may resist electrification for now, but maybe not by 2030s. Legislation changes (climate change subsidies/tax benefits creating new electrification carrots for CN/CP) may allow them to reluctantly permit one or two tracks per their corridor to be electrified as a compromise. New road bridges over CN/CP corridors are already being raised to meet GO's minimum electrification heights for electric-locomotive-pulled Bombardier BiLevels -- that's what happened to Hamilton's still-relatively-new John Street bridge. Eventually, barriers against electrifying via CN/CP corridors, will slowly be removed. Not this generation probably, but by 2041.
That said, Niagara route is unlikely to be electrified simultaneously by 2041 unless an Empire Corridor electrification initiative happening (electrified "Acela Express" style service Toronto-NYC) under a future U.S. administration.
In theory, that ties in well with Niagara RER and a Welland Bridge grade separation (2041? 2051?) -- to enable a Toronto high speed link to the states -- while simultaneously bringing electrified RER service to Niagara Falls (when ridership warrants).
The Welland Canal grade separation isn't worth it just for RER only, but if you combine Niagara RER + high speed to USA, then the economics of the grade separation may then make sense (under possible 2041 ridership, at least).
For now I think Metrolinx could bring 15-min allday to Hamilton and hourly diesels to StCat by 2041 (Niagara Falls during peak)
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
So we suspect, but since when did I care about their commute in light of the benefits of relocation?
AoD
Sandpit
Active Member
And history. There's been a station at that location since 1850.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regionalplanning/rer/rer_lsw.aspx
This is an asterisk for the graphic on the Hamilton hourly service:
I would love Burlington to be the first express stop, as that is my most regular destination on Lakeshore West, but it ain't. It's Oakville.
dowlingm
Senior Member
Whether Metrolinx is using EMUs or not by then seems to me interesting but not conclusive in respect of stop spacing. Whether or not EMU acceleration can negate some negative effects, closer stop spacing is going to make operations more complex, likely reducing signal block lengths and so on.
Again, newer signalling systems may/should help but I'm not as sold as some on here that a corridor like LSW which accommodates outer suburban and intercity runs can overlay urban services. TANSTAFFL and all that.
Again, newer signalling systems may/should help but I'm not as sold as some on here that a corridor like LSW which accommodates outer suburban and intercity runs can overlay urban services. TANSTAFFL and all that.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Thanks for the clarification. So, that deviates from the RER business plan. Time will tell if this changes once electric RER runs and if StCat gains offpeak service.
crs1026
Superstar
Here's my thought (probably worth what you paid for it). Relocate GO Long Branch to Kipling, (or even 30th St). Relocate GO Mimico to Park Lawn. Add a new GO stop at Dixie Road.
- probably no more money, and maybe less, to build two entirely new stations than to rebuild what's there while in service
- Long Branch is a hopeless location, property is too narrow, platforms are very narrow already
- Better connectivity to the new Etobicoke City Center at 6 points, plus quicker bus ride to Kipling Subway, plus Kipling transit hub, plus ability to take the bus as far up Kipling as one likes, plus Humber College at Lakeshore
- Enhances GO for southeastern Mississauga, where a good amount of the Long Branch ridership comes from anyways
- Solves the GO distance between platforms problem
- Solves the Humber Bay transport issue
A key fact that I picked up at the Waterfront Reset PIC: The new western LRT adds capacity, but it will be no faster in trip time to downtown than 501 or 504 today. The Humber Bay GO stop is about regional connectivity, but it's also about the need for a faster link to downtown.
- Paul
- probably no more money, and maybe less, to build two entirely new stations than to rebuild what's there while in service
- Long Branch is a hopeless location, property is too narrow, platforms are very narrow already
- Better connectivity to the new Etobicoke City Center at 6 points, plus quicker bus ride to Kipling Subway, plus Kipling transit hub, plus ability to take the bus as far up Kipling as one likes, plus Humber College at Lakeshore
- Enhances GO for southeastern Mississauga, where a good amount of the Long Branch ridership comes from anyways
- Solves the GO distance between platforms problem
- Solves the Humber Bay transport issue
A key fact that I picked up at the Waterfront Reset PIC: The new western LRT adds capacity, but it will be no faster in trip time to downtown than 501 or 504 today. The Humber Bay GO stop is about regional connectivity, but it's also about the need for a faster link to downtown.
- Paul
Amare
Senior Member
The only problem with your plan is that Metrolinx has already performed their assessment on a Kipling GO station and it scored lower than a Park Lawn GO station so there's a 0 percent chance they'd consider that. Add to the fact that it would be next door to Willowbrook, and there would be no development opportunity around it and the idea just wouldn't even be their radar anymore. 30th Street wouldn't make sense for a whole host of reasons, much in the same way a Dixie station wouldn't make sense (ie: no development opportunities, the catchment area it would currently serve, etc...).
DonValleyRainbow
Senior Member
Here's the thing: this should be a planning exercise by Metrolinx, not GO. Metrolinx's (intended) mission be creating an complete transit network, with integrated, intermodal transit hubs surrounded by dense, walkable, complete communities. Achieving that mission suggests:
- Park Lawn is a suitable endeavor, as it will connect a GO line to an LRT line, and place said hub within immediate walking distance of a number of high-rise condos with ground level retail.
- That this may warrant getting rid, or reducing service to, Mimico, which only connects with the little used 76 bus, has some condos on the books or on the way, but is otherwise surrounded by single-family houses and light industrial land.
So good on Tory for pushing for Park Lawn, I hope the city's pressure persists. When Metrolinx is out of step with their mandate, they need to be called out on it.
Amare
Senior Member
The further I think about this whole situation, the more I think Mimico should be closed up outright and moved to the Humber Bay area. Mimico's existence is being used to justify the ill-advised massive condo developments in an area that's even far less equipped to handle it than even Humber Bay is. The area around Mimico GO is better suited to townhomes, and other housing projects that would fit the "missing middle" bill.
However due various planning acts and requirements, extremely dense proposals are being placed next to existing transit infrastructure which is the only reason why all these massive condo projects are being proposed for Mimico. It would be for all of our best interests (including the residents of Mimico) if that station was simply closed up for good.
Leslie Woo and her team at Metrolinx are doing a horrid job at "planning" for GO Stations, and are giving piss pour reasons to justify their final decisions.
However due various planning acts and requirements, extremely dense proposals are being placed next to existing transit infrastructure which is the only reason why all these massive condo projects are being proposed for Mimico. It would be for all of our best interests (including the residents of Mimico) if that station was simply closed up for good.
Leslie Woo and her team at Metrolinx are doing a horrid job at "planning" for GO Stations, and are giving piss pour reasons to justify their final decisions.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Stouffville Line double tracking update Thursday 18 January 2018:
Milliken Station looking south: Grading in progress but no work yet on the new second platform
Milliken Station looking north: I saw many people deliberately walk in front of moving GO trains while the lights were flashing. And even worse, they also walked directly behind the train while the lights were still flashing, which is a recipe for getting hit by a second train coming the other way. The low train speeds seem to give people a sense of safety, which is also presumably why people keep getting hit by streetcars.
Steeles Avenue looking north - interestingly the level crossing is double-tracked even though the crossing is being replaced by a bridge soon
Milliken Station looking south: Grading in progress but no work yet on the new second platform
Milliken Station looking north: I saw many people deliberately walk in front of moving GO trains while the lights were flashing. And even worse, they also walked directly behind the train while the lights were still flashing, which is a recipe for getting hit by a second train coming the other way. The low train speeds seem to give people a sense of safety, which is also presumably why people keep getting hit by streetcars.
Steeles Avenue looking north - interestingly the level crossing is double-tracked even though the crossing is being replaced by a bridge soon
crs1026
Superstar
Great pictures - thanks for posting them!
I was up on Torbram this week and the grade separations that have been under way up there for 2+ years still aren't finished.
I bet the double track gets completed long before the bridge does.
- Paul
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Makes sense. According to the project website, construction on the bridge is to begin in "Spring/Summer 2018", and will presumably take longer than the double-tracking.
The bridge will be a very welcome change, it will provide a direct pedestrian connection to the north side of Steeles, namely to Pacific Mall and the westbound Steeles buses. As well as of course eliminating the aforementioned pedestrian risks and delays.
hw621
Senior Member
It is worth noting that building of the bridge will happen concurrently with the demolition of Market Village and construction of Remington Centre. It will be interesting to see how Steeles traffic turns out.