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W. K. Lis said:
In case of electrical power failures, will the electric trains use batteries, flywheels, or a diesel backup to move the trains? Either on board or the electric sub-stations?
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Probably not.

They might work with Pearson to get a feed from their plant but that won't do much for the network as a whole.

TTC usually gets ties into 2 different grid sections. Seems to be sufficient for trains but stations still go black and get shut-down as a result.
 
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W. K. Lis said:
In case of electrical power failures, will the electric trains use batteries, flywheels, or a diesel backup to move the trains? Either on board or the electric sub-stations?
Click to expand...

When the power goes out so does the signaling system and automatic switches if they are all on electricity.

Older electrical trains as I understand use to have a diesel backup motor so they could limp out of tunnels and to the next platform. Newer ones have batteries or diesel for the same purpose.

For electical trains, the entire system is SOL if there is a large ice-storm or other electrical failure. Way too costly to have a complete backup system. As part of the business case I would love to read the disaster preparedness analysis!
 
TOareaFan said:
Given where the GO line runs south of Woodbine (near the training track) I can't seen any development there at all....and I don't think there is much access. Like I said, it may have made some sense as a transfer point between GO and an airport shuttle line (although I always preferred Malton for that option) but once that idea went away in favour of a completely separate service running directly into the airport, I don't see much use for a station at Woodbine.
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You have a point. But on the other hand, the station would connect to the TTC's airport rocket bus that serves Humber College and transit starved neighbourhoods of Northern Etobicoke. Bus 112C could be rerouted to use the station. The Finch West LRT could be extended to the Airport via Hwy 27 Connections to GO buses are also possible.


muller877 said:
Great map!

I would add a few more stops:

1. Humbertown (at Royal York) on the Milton line.
2. A Sherway/West Mall/Trillium Health Centre stop also on the Milton Line
3. A Bloor St E stop on the Richmond Hill line (with a solution to move people quickly from/to the Danforth subway line...maybe a high speed Termiinal 1 type walkway)
4. A Brickworks weekend only stop
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I like 1 and 4, however 3 would be a long shot and will probably never happen. Does something like that exist anywhere else in the world? At least there will be connections to the DRL around the West Don Lands, as well as the Eglinton Crosstown and future Don Mills LRT/subway.
 
diminutive said:
Paradoxically, we may need to reduce the total number of platforms at Union to create wider RER platforms with better vertical passenger circulation.
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This has already been addressed multiple times over the years. It's impossible because the locations of the support columns are directly beneath the tracks. The only way any changes can be done is to either A) close every second track which would leave us with about 8 tracks total or B) completely demolish the shed and rebuild it which is not going to happen considering the amount of money that they've poured into it recently and the fact its a heritage structure. The tunnel option is better then those two alternatives.

Part of the issue may be the sudden explosion of new rail services proposed in Ontario. Between UPX, HSR, GO Regional Rail, RER proposals and VIA there's clearly a lot of overlap which would have to be collapsed. There's no way Kitchener-Toronto will justify VIA, GO and HSR service, for instance.
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Once HSR to London comes to pass VIA will cancel servicing the line much in the same way as they've cancelled all Niagara Fall service(aside from one daily joint Amtrack which only still exists because of the US connection) once GO started running there. The same will apply elsewhere whenever GO service expands in the future so theres no need to worry, there will be no such overlap.

I mean, what if GO/ML insists on all sorts of expensive features?
Having to get FRA compliant EMUs, still manned with 3 person crews. Some kind of expensive Union redesign to handle electrification or greater passenger loads. God knows what kind of signalling improvements. Large numbers of grade separations.
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GO doesn't insist on such expensive features. They're largely regulatory requirements.
 
muller877 said:
When the power goes out so does the signaling system and automatic switches if they are all on electricity.
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The signal system & connected power operated switches all have battery backups and continue to function for a short while in the event of a local/regional blackout.
 
muller877 said:
Great map!

I would add a few more stops:

3. A Bloor St E stop on the Richmond Hill line (with a solution to move people quickly from/to the Danforth subway line...maybe a high speed Termiinal 1 type walkway)
Click to expand...
Walkway? Not gonna happen. Where the line currently is, the station is useless. Oh, and it's gonna be flooded regularly.

However. If they're planning the flood mitigation strategy anyways, why not do this?

After leaving USRC, make a flyover/under with Bayview ave. as soon as the ROWs meet. Relocate Bayview to where the rail ROW is right now. Make the new rail ROW slowly climb the grade and steer it a bit westward from where Bayview is now. Make it pass as close to Castle Frank station as possible, this might requre relocating Bayview/Don Valley clover ramps. Place a new station there. Continue on Beltline Trail ROW for a bit, then steer it East to meet with Don Sub ROW and then North Toronto sub without using the Governor bridge. Use one of the ramps discussed in another thread to fly under CP tracks and get back to Bala sub.

Sounds crazy (and expensive), I know, but it solves all purposes at once: a subway connection, flood mitigation, straightening the line to make it faster.
 
vegeta_skyline said:
This has already been addressed multiple times over the years. It's impossible because the locations of the support columns are directly beneath the tracks. The only way any changes can be done is to either A) close every second track which would leave us with about 8 tracks total or B) completely demolish the shed and rebuild it which is not going to happen considering the amount of money that they've poured into it recently and the fact its a heritage structure. The tunnel option is better then those two alternatives.
Click to expand...

You wouldn't have to close every second track in the whole station. Close tracks 3 & 6 to create expanded platforms. That would give four tracks in the northernmost part of the station with wide platforms, and would still leave 14 tracks for regional and intercity trains.

People are also skipping the technical difficulty of building underground station caverns like this in the first place. The vertical circulation alone would be a nightmare. Excavating large underground stations like this are probably some of the most expensive and technically challenging projects on earth.

vegeta_skyline said:
Once HSR to London comes to pass VIA will cancel servicing the line much in the same way as they've cancelled all Niagara Fall service(aside from one daily joint Amtrack which only still exists because of the US connection) once GO started running there. The same will apply elsewhere whenever GO service expands in the future so theres no need to worry, there will be no such overlap.
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Right, but once you get rid of the overlap there really aren't that many intercity trips. Maybe 2x hourly intercity trips to London? 2x hourly trips to Ottawa/Mtl? Maybe 2x hourly trips to Hamilton/St.Catharines?

vegeta_skylineGO doesn't [B said:
insist[/B] on such expensive features. They're largely regulatory requirements.
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Right, but presumably the RER-ification will entail some kind of waiver to FRA requirements. Regulatory requirements aren't set in stone, after all. The context of my comment was merely pointing out that, the less the RER project is exempt from these various requirements, the more plausible that some kind of carte blanche system would be cheaper.
 
Someone had better alert Ottawa to the near-impossibility of excavating underground stations before they embark on a third one :)
 
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diminutive said:
Different geology, and not under the busiest train station in the country.
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Yep. A lot of the relatively unorthodox strategies Ottawa is using for the Confederation Line--like excavating stations from within the tunnel & using roadheaders instead of TBMs--are all because of the unusual geology. It's all solid bedrock underneath downtown Ottawa, unlike the soil & clay in Toronto.
 
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