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I wonder if a strategy would work where first 2 track sections are dealt with (Humber Bridge for example) but also an offer made to CP to fund track improvements west of Milton where it is currently singled but could be upgraded (relatively) cheaply compared to expensive expropriation in Toronto/Mississauga.
 
We should have had this level of service years ago. I swear sometimes we can be so backwards in Canada. Countries poorer than us are electrifying their rails and building high speed rail but somehow we can't.
 
dowlingm said:
I wonder if a strategy would work where first 2 track sections are dealt with (Humber Bridge for example) but also an offer made to CP to fund track improvements west of Milton where it is currently singled but could be upgraded (relatively) cheaply compared to expensive expropriation in Toronto/Mississauga.
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What would that accomplish, exactly? There is no capacity shortfall west of Campbellville, and thus no incentive to improve the line out there.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Track alignment/feasibility question.

CP track ownership aside, how possible is it to run the existing rush hour trains trains on Govenor's Bridge? I am aware that the spur between Leaside and the West Don Lands is already owned by GO, but is not currently being used for anything.

Second, how possible is is to build a new rail spur connecting the CP North Toronto Subdivision to the Bala Subdivision such as this? Given that it's not possible to rebuild the Leaside Spur at this point, and even if it were, CP would have issues with a frequent GO line crossing their track at grade, it would pretty much be necessary to build a new spur if there are any hopes of getting a GO station at Eglinton/Leslie.

With this spur, GO would run paralell and south of the CP North Toronto from the Leaside Yards to Don Mills Road. The line would then dip south before turning north to cross under the CP line and run adjacent to the DVP, where it would then meet up with the existing RH Line north of Moccasin Trail Park. The section of the flood-prone RH line to the south of that point could then be closed down and converted to a rail-trail.
 
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dunkalunk said:
Track alignment/feasibility question.

CP track ownership aside, how possible is it to run the existing rush hour trains trains on Govenor's Bridge? I am aware that the spur between Leaside and the West Don Lands is already owned by GO, but is not currently being used for anything.

Second, how possible is is to build a new rail spur connecting the CP North Toronto Subdivision to the Bala Subdivision such as this? Given that it's not possible to rebuild the Leaside Spur at this point, and even if it were, CP would have issues with a frequent GO line crossing their track at grade, it would pretty much be necessary to build a new spur if there are any hopes of getting a GO station at Eglinton/Leslie.

With this spur, GO would run paralell and south of the CP North Toronto from the Leaside Yards to Don Mills Road. The line would then dip south before turning north to cross under the CP line and run adjacent to the DVP, where it would then meet up with the existing RH Line north of Moccasin Trail Park. The section of the flood-prone RH line to the south of that point could then be closed down and converted to a rail-trail.
Click to expand...
This has been answered in detail in this very thread about a year ago:

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...ad-(including-extensions)?p=747887#post747887

see several posts before that for context. So far I haven't seen anyone challenge this assessment.
 
trainiart said:
This has been answered in detail in this very thread about a year ago:

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...ad-(including-extensions)?p=747887#post747887

see several posts before that for context. So far I haven't seen anyone challenge this assessment.
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I'm challenging it, again. (I was the one who brought it up a year ago). Mostly because what I'm proposing is different from what's been proposed before and what AECOM investigated. If you acquire property to the south of the CP line that fronts on Garamond Court, the line would no longer be required to cross the DVP, but instead take advantage of the DVP's grading to avoid having to construct any large viaduct structures with extreme curves.

Gx5jPNL.jpg


All being said, unless there is serious consideration of adding an infill GO station at Leslie/Eglinton, there is little point in spending the money on it for aforementioned reasons. If Glen Murray is to be taken seriously in that there will be all-day 2-way GO service on all lines within 5 years, then an infill station on Richmond Hill is definitely warranted.
 
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Easy now, everyone relax.
It's not a matter of challenging anything and I don't think nobody's saying it can't be done. Its more a matter of how much money the government is willing to spend on the line. I think its a good proposal that makes sense. It would indeed be cheaper then the previous one since they wouldn't have to build a massive raised viaduct for it. The proposed curve for the flyunder is rather tight but still completely feasible and is a good trade off - eliminating a series of curves further south on the current route for just the one.

The Govenor's Bridge is pretty much derelict at this point and would have to be completely rebuilt - new deck/tracks/pier repair. And Mextrolinx would of course have to build their own mainline including a large new bridge over the west branch of the Don river next to CP's Belleville sub(the North Toronto sub starts at the Leaside Controlled Location just west of Millwood) from the Belleville Don branch to the proposed fly under west of the DVP.

So it's absolutely doable.
Its hard to say how much it would cost in total. Rail-to-rail grade separation and the large new bridge over the Don would be the two biggest single structure cost. Examples include; 54$ million for Hagerman, 125$ million for Strachan, 214$ million for Weston & 277$ million for West Toronto rail seperations. And I imagine the cost of land would be significant as well, probably more so then the cost of the trackwork for the new line.


However, even this route does not by-pass all of the flood prone sections of line. Here's some pics I took years ago during one such flood from Gerrard st, a location where both the current Bala sub and the proposed new route must pass through;

e12nGrD.jpg

NnMPyMW.jpg

mJyuY5P.jpg


Every time the DVP floods, which has happened virtually every year for the past 10 years or so, this section of track floods as well. Really this section should be fix/raised either way of course, just saying that using your route doesn't solve the flooding problem in and of itself.
 
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The reason a lot of the Georgetown projects are so expensive is because they are built for so many tracks, if the strachan seperation was built for 2 tracks instead of 8 it would be considerably cheaper.
 
vegeta_skyline said:
Every time the DVP floods, which has happened virtually every year for the past 10 years or so, this section of track floods as well. Really this section should be fix/raised either way of course, just saying that using your route doesn't solve the flooding problem in and of itself.
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Funny you mention that. Metrolinx is trying to figure out ways to raise that section of track 18 to 24 inches higher than it sits today.

innsertnamehere said:
The reason a lot of the Georgetown projects are so expensive is because they are built for so many tracks, if the strachan seperation was built for 2 tracks instead of 8 it would be considerably cheaper.
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No, the reason why a lot of the Georgetown projects are so expensive is because they can't shut down the corridor for a year to do it. That wouldn't change with this project.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
smallspy said:
Funny you mention that. Metrolinx is trying to figure out ways to raise that section of track 18 to 24 inches higher than it sits today.
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That's a welcome development, I assume that their also looking at fixing sections further north as well then. You'd know better but I doubt a Richmond Hill line detour is too high up the prior ladder right now(if it's even being considered) and the more urgent need is to fix/mitigate the flooding problem.
 
vegeta_skyline said:
That's a welcome development, I assume that their also looking at fixing sections further north as well then. You'd know better but I doubt a Richmond Hill line detour is too high up the prior ladder right now(if it's even being considered) and the more urgent need is to fix/mitigate the flooding problem.
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There is no fix to the flooding problem - that ship sailed long ago when the bottom of the Don River was channelized. All that can be done now is mitigate the damage when it does happen.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
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