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crs1026 said:
It helps, yes. But only if yet more money is brought. I don’t see both projects proceeding in parallel. So we are talking twenty years out.
And really, if we are building an express cross GTA line, maybe it needs to be further north to benefit more people in more places. I can see a mid town line landing a ways down the priority list. It may not be the first cross town line to be built.

- Paul
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I'm reminded that the 401 was built (or billed) as the Toronto Bypass.
 
dowlingm said:
There’s widening this elevated structure, for one thing
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Quite apart from the size and thus cost of a new Humber River bridge - and likely a two track bridge at that - I can see lots of grumbling and opposition from the Kingsway residents. Expect a very thorough and lengthy TPAP process partly because the Humber is a sensitive place for construction, but also because a district packed with powerful lawyers will be watching like a hawk.
Even building sound fencing thru that area will be controversial.
There is also the Mimico Creek, Etobicoke Creek, and Credit watersheds to consider.
Following on to the previous post about a midtown line - I can see influential residents catching on to the proposition that a freight bypass would allow Milton GO to be 2WAD without adding so much new track. Maybe that is what will let the genie out of the bottle.

- Paul
 
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The Freight Bypass is more expensive than many realize, especially if you want to shift CP onto it too. CP will want a dedicated parallel corridor to CN all the way over to Agincourt, will need new freight yards, etc. Double-Tracking Milton is likely still substantially cheaper.
 
innsertnamehere said:
The Freight Bypass is more expensive than many realize, especially if you want to shift CP onto it too. CP will want a dedicated parallel corridor to CN all the way over to Agincourt, will need new freight yards, etc.
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I will leave it to our rail experts to opine; but I will note that CN/CP already co-produce (share lines), in 2 significant areas in the country, in both cases running traffic unidirectionally down one line and up the other.

That suggests, that for the most part, a two-track corridor should work (one east, one west); there would obviously be a need for some additional track near major yards and such.

Also, what yard are you envisioning CP replacing? Leaside is gone, Obico is gone, not sure what's going on w/Lambton this week, LOL

Final thought, our experts here have suggested that CP may just move Toronto yard (Agincourt) entirely.

None of which is to suggest the Missing Link/Midtown by-pass would be cheap; nor do I have the requisite info to compare value for money vs quad-tracking Milton.
 
innsertnamehere said:
The Freight Bypass is more expensive than many realize, especially if you want to shift CP onto it too. CP will want a dedicated parallel corridor to CN all the way over to Agincourt, will need new freight yards, etc. Double-Tracking Milton is likely still substantially cheaper.
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Quite possibly. I don’t have a firm view either way… but it’s the question that one expects will be asked, as it was when GO wanted the Halton line….before multiple billions are committed.
I bet somebody asks for that analysis.
And maybe with Ottawa in the funding game, maybe it will be asked at a level that could actually examine alternatives (eg coproduction) at a policy level.

- Paul
 
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Smlgucci said:
Practically speaking, what might grade separation works in Streetsville actually look like? I’m counting four at-grade crossings: Mississauga Road, Thomas, Tannery, and Ontario St.

Are we talking tunnelling? An overpass? There’s not a lot of distance between the GO platform and Mississauga Rd, nor Thomas.
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Mississauga Road will be tricky and expensive, as it's a pretty busy North-South street and the track is on a curve as it intersects with the road. There will likely need to be property acquisition and track realignments.
Thomas Street won't be cheap either but it's a pretty straight stretch of track and should be fairly straightforward.
As for Tannery and Ontario, I'm pretty sure grade separations aren't necessary for these crossings. I'm skeptical (as a nearby resident) that Tannery has the traffic necessary to warrant a grade separation, especially if we're talking just 1 train per hour.
Ontario shouldn't be grade separated, there's only 23 houses on the other side of the tracks, it would be cheaper to literally give each property owner a million dollars than it would be to do a grade separation. I could see a pedestrian bridge for Dolphin PS students with the crossing closed for vehicles like the plans for some LSW grade crossings in Lakeview.
 
lexaprofessional said:
Mississauga Road will be tricky and expensive, as it's a pretty busy North-South street and the track is on a curve as it intersects with the road. There will likely need to be property acquisition and track realignments.
Thomas Street won't be cheap either but it's a pretty straight stretch of track and should be fairly straightforward.
As for Tannery and Ontario, I'm pretty sure grade separations aren't necessary for these crossings. I'm skeptical (as a nearby resident) that Tannery has the traffic necessary to warrant a grade separation, especially if we're talking just 1 train per hour.
Ontario shouldn't be grade separated, there's only 23 houses on the other side of the tracks, it would be cheaper to literally give each property owner a million dollars than it would be to do a grade separation. I could see a pedestrian bridge for Dolphin PS students with the crossing closed for vehicles like the plans for some LSW grade crossings in Lakeview.
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If the plan is only hourly service, then I agree with your comments. But if indeed the line is to have 2WAD at 15 minute or better headways, with freight as well, and up to 4 tracks to cross, we are getting closer to Weston 2.0.
I'm not saying we should go there but I expect the community may have things to say.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
If the plan is only hourly service, then I agree with your comments. But if indeed the line is to have 2WAD at 15 minute or better headways, with freight as well, and up to 4 tracks to cross, we are getting closer to Weston 2.0.
I'm not saying we should go there but I expect the community may have things to say.

- Paul
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I'm very much expecting Streetsville GO as well as Lisgar to be included in the TOC program with the absolutely gargantuan surface parking lots at stations. I have literally never once seen the Streetsville lot more than half-full, and this was when I was in the Cadet program, when the lot was being used for the Bread & Honey Festival as well as Santa Claus Parade. I think the platforms should be located closer to Thomas Street, but that would entail new pedestrian tunnels etc. so probably not happening.
The Streetsville Centre Plaza is being redeveloped with a massive amount of new density, so I would hope that the developers would have some sense and negotiate with the community to pick up some of the tab for grade separations required, especially if Tannery is included.
I still don't see a scenario where Metrolinx agrees to grade separate Ontario Street though, I would be very surprised if that crossing sees more than 100 vehicles per day. I do think a pedestrian bridge would be a good idea as students would need to cross the tracks, but vehicle access through Tannery should be sufficient, if not popular.
 
Is this commitment to the Milton Line money for building the "missing middle" via Brampton allowing GO to own the entire Milton/MidTown Line or just adding tracks to the Milton Line to allow for more GO service?
 
ssiguy2 said:
Is this commitment to the Milton Line money for building the "missing middle" via Brampton allowing GO to own the entire Milton/MidTown Line or just adding tracks to the Milton Line to allow for more GO service?
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Adding tracks to the existing Milton Line corridor. No indication is very unlikely it would be a freight by-pass between Bramalea and Milton.
 
lexaprofessional said:
I'm very much expecting Streetsville GO as well as Lisgar to be included in the TOC program with the absolutely gargantuan surface parking lots at stations. I have literally never once seen the Streetsville lot more than half-full, and this was when I was in the Cadet program, when the lot was being used for the Bread & Honey Festival as well as Santa Claus Parade. I think the platforms should be located closer to Thomas Street, but that would entail new pedestrian tunnels etc. so probably not happening.
The Streetsville Centre Plaza is being redeveloped with a massive amount of new density, so I would hope that the developers would have some sense and negotiate with the community to pick up some of the tab for grade separations required, especially if Tannery is included.
I still don't see a scenario where Metrolinx agrees to grade separate Ontario Street though, I would be very surprised if that crossing sees more than 100 vehicles per day. I do think a pedestrian bridge would be a good idea as students would need to cross the tracks, but vehicle access through Tannery should be sufficient, if not popular.
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If this is subbing for a prospective Mississauga subway, I think we should be willing to spend to relocate stations/access to future-proof as much as possible and streamline integration with transit on major streets. Cooksville and Erindale are already well-located. Dixie GO could stand to have the platforms moved closer to Dixie. Add a stop at Cawthra, protect for one at Mavis (though the area is quite industrial), a stop near Eglinton, protect for a station at Britannia, move Meadowvale closer to Derry (there is a self-storage business that could be redeveloped as part of a TOC), relocate Lisgar to Winston Churchill, add a stop at Ninth Line. We should try to align the GO stations with arterials that can be used to funnel bus passengers onto the line to make transfers quicker and have buses spend less time diverting. I expect Mississauga will be developing a BRT/BRT lite network on many of these arterials.

While we're spending $6B, and before a lot of redevelopment happens, is probably the right time to align the stations to support future growth.
 
afransen said:
If this is subbing for a prospective Mississauga subway, I think we should be willing to spend to relocate stations/access to future-proof as much as possible and streamline integration with transit on major streets. Cooksville and Erindale are already well-located. Dixie GO could stand to have the platforms moved closer to Dixie. Add a stop at Cawthra, protect for one at Mavis (though the area is quite industrial), a stop near Eglinton, protect for a station at Britannia, move Meadowvale closer to Derry (there is a self-storage business that could be redeveloped as part of a TOC), relocate Lisgar to Winston Churchill, add a stop at Ninth Line. We should try to align the GO stations with arterials that can be used to funnel bus passengers onto the line to make transfers quicker and have buses spend less time diverting. I expect Mississauga will be developing a BRT/BRT lite network on many of these arterials.

While we're spending $6B, and before a lot of redevelopment happens, is probably the right time to align the stations to support future growth.
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If cooksville was further south and closer to Dundas I would say it’s in a good location or if cooksville was further north and closer to burnamthorpe I would say it’s in a good location. Yes it’s on hurontario but it’s neither here nor there. It’s not the best location.
 
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