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I don't know that tolerance is necessarily always solely a liberal value. There is in some camps a strong conservative tradition of 'do what you want in your neck of the woods as long as I can do what I want in mine' kind of frontier individualism. Toronto feels a little like this to me.
 
...possibly, but the opposite of a moralizing/judgemental perspective nonetheless.
 
Yeah I have "Laissez-faire" social views, lol

Something me and my friend made up, you know Laissez-faire economics...


Pretty much though I agree with the views expressed above.

I don't care as long as your gay and that you marry, as long as I can go to a temple and have some peace from the rest of the world.
 
San Francisco is very liberal but the people there still wait for the light to change before crossing the street, weirdly enough.
San Francisco is a very unique place in terms of driving habits, traffic, pedestrians, etc... Having rented a car there on 3 occasions (rental places in the Bay Area ALL have hybrids available, BTW), one of the major things I noticed was how observant drivers are of each other. There are so many 4-way stops it's not funny, and everyone signals. If you change lanes without signaling you'll get dirty looks as they pull up beside you, or they'll yell at you for rolling through a stop.

I think the geography really forces drivers there to be very careful and it all spreads from there.

Despite the openly gay/leftie stereotype (which was earned), Americans in general - including California - are still more conservative than Canadians. American "liberals" are still to the right (so to speak) of Canadian "conservatives". There are far more rules and regulations and unspoken norms than we have, as Canada is more of a cultural free-for-all. Americans will more quickly stand up for themselves, for their rights, for the property, their privacy, etc...while Canadians (and Torontonians, as per this thread) are more likely to bite their tongues and let things happen that they might not agree with. It's partly due to a more open/accepting attitude, but also largely due to being to nice to offend someone or be perceived a bigot/boor/a-hole.

Canada is more of a free for all, due to political correctness. We have government sanctioned political parties whose sole purpose is to keep differing Canadians perpetually afraid to do or say the wrong thing, lest a finger be pointed at them.
 
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My Father strongly believes in the death penalty and that schools should punish students more severely and that heath care should be privatized.

Yet he says "I will vote for the liberals, till I cannot vote no more!"

Really shows the Liberal should go back to courting the centrist or traditional liberal "Chretien" vote.

Thats cool. I know two guys who want a sex change and then become lesbians and there pretty loyal conservatives.
 
While I also correlate the level of liberalism on a continuum of bad to good I think we need to be careful of this. There are all kinds of intentional and unintentional consequences in societies that lean one way or another. People I think intuitively understand this, however they tend to express things as progressive on a continuum and assign behaviours and ideas as good and bad, worse or better. Free will is both championed and surpressed by conservatives and liberals alike.

I think Marko makes a very important point for instance how tolerance in our city may flow to some significant extent from our reserved character. Interestingly also while Americans tend to champion free will and we good government, in many respects Americans are more collectivist in their identity while we are more individualistic.
 
Libertarian is a type of conservative.
Seem completely opposed to Conservatives to me. Conservatives want to tell everyone how to live, and what to do, and what not to do.

Libertarians don't.

Now they often seem to ally, the same way the labour movement and the socialists have in Canada (though that always seems a pretty odd fit to me); and the same way the fiscal-conservatives and social-progressives used to in Canada (which hasn't been as necessary of late, as even the NDP touts that they are fiscally conservative in everything except name).

But while they might have fit in well with the fiscally-conservative social-progessive Conservatives, I don't think they fit very well at all with where the Canadian Conservative party has gone of late.
 
Libertarian is a type of conservative.


No you can be a Libertarian and believe in a liberal social policy...

"you don't hurt me, I don't care what the hell you do" :p
 
1.)"Libertarianism" is idiotic. I will say there are a few people who actually believe in it, but for the most part it is just a way to make insecure college kids feel special. That's how you get these logically dissonant concepts like "economic libertarian" vs. "social libertarian." You can't believe that the state has no place in the bedroom, but does have a place at the ATM, or in the restaurant, or at the bar, or in the classroom and still call yourself a "libertarian." You had this thing in the USA, where during the Bush years a lot of younger people, largely uninspired by the Democrats, just turned to calling themselves "social libertarians." The moment Obama came around though, they just ditched that entirely and grabbed onto a fairly conventional Democratic/center left platform. Now you get a whole bunch of nominal "libertarians" going on about how public health care totally jives with "libertarianism" or how a fat tax is really a great idea. For the most part, "libertarians" are just "libertarian" enough to think they should be free to do what they like, but still be able to tell others what to do. That's why it always fails, it's oxymoronic.

2.) Politics in Toronto is mostly identity as opposed to policy based. If you anonymized the various political parties, 90% of us wouldn't be able to tell the difference. They all support the same issues. A good example is Afghanistan, arguably our most important foreign policy commitment of the past decade, and it wasn't mentioned once in the last election. Our economic policy is bi-partisan. Nobody discusses immigration, at all. There are no major disagreements on social policy. Instead we focus on identity issues. Whether or not Harper can sing, whether or not Ignatieff is too cosmopolitan, or Jack Layton and that stupid bloody kitchen table. So, I'd say Toronto self-identifies as Liberal. I'm less sure that really means anything, though.
 
Yeah, as much as we dislike the Tories on this board...

They will not bring in the death penalty.
End Immigration and declare war on other countries, privatizing health care.


The only major thing I would see them doing is reforming the senate.
 
2.) Politics in Toronto is mostly identity as opposed to policy based. If you anonymized the various political parties, 90% of us wouldn't be able to tell the difference. They all support the same issues. A good example is Afghanistan, arguably our most important foreign policy commitment of the past decade, and it wasn't mentioned once in the last election. Our economic policy is bi-partisan. Nobody discusses immigration, at all. There are no major disagreements on social policy. Instead we focus on identity issues. Whether or not Harper can sing, whether or not Ignatieff is too cosmopolitan, or Jack Layton and that stupid bloody kitchen table. So, I'd say Toronto self-identifies as Liberal. I'm less sure that really means anything, though.

Federal politics these days is like sports teams. The Conservatives are playing for the West, Liberals for Central Canada, Bloq for Quebec. They're not ideologically different, the difference is who they will send the pork barrels to.
 

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