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UrbanVigor

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Definitely. It's funny how people view things on paper and then dream something completely different.

A co-worker was just in my office looking through MLS listings and, having not seen the units yet, was saying she prefers the 1+d listing so that she can have a guest over... meanwhile the dimensions of that den only provide for a small desk pushed against the wall.

Dens and second bedrooms are often a marketing gimmick. I'm sure many developers could build more far better 1 bedrooms with no dens, but they're able to charge a premium for units with dens because of the "idea" in people's heads. People often overlook what's really important and that's floor plans and space.
 

Monaco

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the main topic of this thread was the labelling of 570 SF as 2 bedrooms, where an 8 FT x 8 FT space without any closet is called a 'bedroom'; and the progressive down-sizing of SF / up-size labelling.

if one wants to buy 400 SF, that's fine; but the main problem i have is developers are getting away with calling that a '1 bedroom unit' when the same space only 5 years ago was considered a 'bachelor'.

with prices reaching $500 PSF, it's been a creative strategy by builders that has allowed them to market this as
"1 bedroom from $199,900" and
"2 bedrooms from $280,900"

Completely agree. 2bdr sounds better than 1+1 even though it will likely function as a den. Those plans remind me of student housing/dorms.
 

simuls

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It seems to me that those 570ft 2 beds are strictly for investors to rent out. That being said, I had a 630sq ft 1+den and it felt too large for just 1 person, but perfect for 2 (who shared a room) ;)
 

consultant

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Higher the price smaller the units

As prices climb in Toronto we will see smaller units as a norm especially in the new units.
 

Eug

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It seems to me that those 570ft 2 beds are strictly for investors to rent out.
I'd say you're off-base here. As others have said, if prices hold up for the most part, then the new norms will continue to get smaller, for affordability for both investors and people buying to live in.

That being said, I had a 630sq ft 1+den and it felt too large for just 1 person, but perfect for 2 (who shared a room) ;)
Well, it's all personal preference, and affordability. I personally would find a 1 630 sf 1+den too small. Indeed, the reason I moved out of my 2-bedroom condo which was far larger was because I found it was becoming too small for my tastes even for just myself, and even worse for me and my GF, and I had the cash to upgrade. However, I would have been happy in the 3-bedroom 1400 sf townhouse in the same complex.
 

condos1

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As prices climb in Toronto we will see smaller units as a norm especially in the new units.

Agreed! If everyone could afford a big unit that is within their budget, in their location, there would be none of these <400SF units in the marketplace.

What surprised me was seeing a 350SF unit in a new condo development in SCARBOROUGH of all places. WOW! I always thought these small units are only a downtown Toronto thing. Oh well. I guess we must all learn to live with less or earn more to live in a big place!
 

JayBee

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As some have said in this thread, when done right, a small space can look much larger and be quite functional. Smaller/built-in applicances, condo sized furniture, sliding doors as opposed to doors that swing out, etc. These all save quite a bit of space.

450 sqft sounds small, but if done right, it could feel just as large as a 600 sqft condo with a long hallway.
 

condos1

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As some have said in this thread, when done right, a small space can look much larger and be quite functional. Smaller/built-in applicances, condo sized furniture, sliding doors as opposed to doors that swing out, etc. These all save quite a bit of space.

450 sqft sounds small, but if done right, it could feel just as large as a 600 sqft condo with a long hallway.

Square footage is just a number that provides a rough guideline. Layout is everything!
 

dc01231

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As prices climb in Toronto we will see smaller units as a norm especially in the new units.

I agree. and I feel like the developers are really trying hard to keep their 'entry level' units priced at that low 200k mark. And with prices climbing above $600PSF they kind of don't have much choice in the matter. If only 200k downtown still bought you 800 sq ft... but sadly those days are long gone!
 

lead82

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At some point the size shrinkage can only go so far. I mean these tiny 570sq ft units don't really have kitchens anymore, just a wall of appliances.

The reality is the construction of these types of units is creating a transient culture downtown. People simply cannot live long in these units. As people get older or start families, it is just not possible to live in such a small space (<600sq ft) with any children for a long time. That's why the suburban condos are popular, because people are able to get the space they need without the worries or the costs associated with buying a house in the same area.

My main concern is that downtown in 10 years will be almost 100% yuppified. There are no children downtown, and any the live just outside downtown will soon be moving out to more suburban area. I think it is a sad reality that schools downtown will have to be closed and those buildings abandoned. Downtown will start to loose its identity if people don't make it a neighbourhood where one can live for many years. That's what made Downtown Toronto such a livable place to begin with.
 

UrbanVigor

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Let's hope developers keep future demographic trends in perspective as opposed to just relying on what's worked in the short past. Far too often, people's memories are short and their forethought even shorter.

I'm moving into a 620 sf condo at Market Wharf once it's built. But I do wonder in the back of my head what will happen 5-7 years from now, or even just 2 years from now what my life situation will be. In my mind, moving to the suburbs is not an option.
 

Team Me

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At some point the size shrinkage can only go so far. I mean these tiny 570sq ft units don't really have kitchens anymore, just a wall of appliances.

The reality is the construction of these types of units is creating a transient culture downtown. People simply cannot live long in these units. As people get older or start families, it is just not possible to live in such a small space (<600sq ft) with any children for a long time. That's why the suburban condos are popular, because people are able to get the space they need without the worries or the costs associated with buying a house in the same area.

My main concern is that downtown in 10 years will be almost 100% yuppified. There are no children downtown, and any the live just outside downtown will soon be moving out to more suburban area. I think it is a sad reality that schools downtown will have to be closed and those buildings abandoned. Downtown will start to loose its identity if people don't make it a neighbourhood where one can live for many years. That's what made Downtown Toronto such a livable place to begin with.

Yes, just look at what it's done to Manhattan, Paris and London. Those are some truly horrid urban areas without any identity or culture.
 

HiRiser

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Hey folks, am being offered an assignment for this Maple Leaf Square unit, 490 Sq Ft on a very high floor in the high 30's. for $250K. It's small, so would possibly be an investment but any thoughts on floorplan, price, etc? Great project & location
 

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