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Admiral Beez

Admiral Beez

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http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_17422.aspx

Giorgio Mammoliti, who represents York West, contends neither the city nor Toronto police have what it takes to deal with the gang activity and resulting bloodshed. Mammoliti believes the army could make a real impact in the area.

"The army can come in here and deal with things this way they feel they need to be done and they got a whole new set of rules," the city councillor asserts. "And I know this community would want to see that happen. We know who the gang members are and it's time that we deal with them the same way we'd deal with anyone else that comes in with arms and takes over communities."
Click to expand...
Should we really consider bringing in the military to enforce law and order?

As a side note, I've often thought that military recruitment should be encouraged in these areas. Provided they have a high school education, the military presents these otherwise gang-bound youths with the sense of belonging, respect, security (food, shelter), hierarchy and weapons training that they seek in gangs, but in this case it's a legitimate career.
 
Wow and we thought bringing in the army to shovel snow was hilarious...

If "we know who the gang members are", can't the police do something? Or is he proposing doing away with due process and just rounding everyone up and holding them on no charges indefinitely?

I don't even get what his proposal is.
 
I think he's proposing something along the lines of the War Measures Act in Quebec. Back then, with only two or three people killed, the Feds sent in hundreds of soldiers to ensure order. With about 13 gang-related murders in this one ward this year alone, I suppose he's hoping a LAV or two on the street corners might help.

When I was living in Fredericton I became quite used to seeing LAVs from nearby CFB Gagetown driving about the city and countryside; so it wouldn't faze me. I remember filling up my 1970 Triumph motorcycle at a very rural gas station once, when out of the woods came three LAVs, with about 25 soldiers in total. They pulled up for refueling, same as me. Though I reckon their fuel consumption would turn Andrea's knickers inside out. I remember also two LAVs rolling down my street in Cabbagetown during Mel Lastman's "winter seige".
 
Ridiculous. Even in the worst neighbourhoods in Toronto, the criminals are a tiny minority of the population. I myself would feel terrorized to walk outside my home and see the armed soldiers wandering the streets. Imagine how many innocent people would be shaken down, intimidated and perhaps killed in the process by overzealous troops only a few years older than the punks they are supposed to be eliminating. Also, even if the army did apprehend a slew of gangstas, they'd end up in the same courts being released just as quickly as they are now when the police arrest them. Pointless.
 
This man deserves to be tarred and feathered.

If he wants parts of Toronto to look like 1965 or 1992 Los Angeles, or 1967 Detroit or Newark, I don't know how that will help. It won't be constructive, that's for sure.
 
The best thing the military can do to eliminate gangs is to offer meaningful careers to potential gang members. There aren't too many good jobs available today for folks with just high school education, while the military offers high school graduates stability, job training (where else can you learn to be a mechanic and have your tuition paid for), pensions, etc. If I was a down and out high school grad with little prospects, I'd definitely consider joining the military. Perhaps not the army, as getting your leg blown off in Afghanistan would be troublesome, but the navy or air force would be ideal opportunities.
 
hmm military in poor neighborhoods....


I can just see the trouble...
 
Admiral Beez said:
The best thing the military can do to eliminate gangs is to offer meaningful careers to potential gang members.
Click to expand...

The US has a much larger army than Canada and a much bigger gang problem than Canada at the same time.
 
This Mammoliti guy seems like a bit of a twit. If a police presence can't deal with it what the heck are a bunch of young reservists sitting in jeeps going to do?
 
We need a domestic 'surge' strategy....

What these people need is more discipline and hard honest work and if they won't do what we know should work for them, with all these problems that they create, then we need to declare war on them and bring in any force necessary to get them back on the right path.

------​

That is fairly close to the logic that comes out of this mindset. That mindset ignores quite a few things in getting to that reduction. And need we be reminded that societies that have pursued this strategy have often been subsequently viewed very negatively not only by their targets, but by the rest of the world.

I hate to remind the proponents of this strategy of what is patently obvious, but these people have rights too. If you want a police-state, or shall I strike that and rephrase it as a domestic version of a military surge declared, you might as well have the same strategy for the country as a whole - just to be fair. This domestic surge idea is a bit too much over-reaction to the symptoms rather than the causes of these gangs and the crime etc.

I am never going to understand why this heavy-handed approach that some are considering is so attractive as an alternative. Rather than solving the problem, it might create bigger problems down the road.

This is not an appeal to be lenient, as much as it is an appeal to be more humane and reasonable, while still enforcing the law. In the meantime, make sure there are options for people to get jobs and good schooling and a way out of the situations they find themselves in. Too many people want to preach about what these people should do on the one hand, then make no effort to ensure that there is a 'level playing field' for those that they preach to in those communities. Is it really all their own fault, maybe there is enough blame to spread around for all concerned.
 
Dear Mr. Mammoliti,

There is the police force. There is the army. They do very different work.

Get it?
 
Hydrogen:

Obviously he didnt get it. Now Torontonians is going look like a bunch of fools in the media, again. Just as we think Mel is behind us...

AoD
 
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