[Eug]

That sounds about right. Should, but doesn't ... mill rate is calculated by how much the city needs, and dividing it into the tax base.

Needs, or spends?

Either way, the point of all this is that many believe that $ amount has a significant component of waste in it, hence the backlash vote. One can only hope that Bussin's behaviour isn't symptomatic of a larger problem.

 

[adma]

I think that could only be if we defined an extremely narrow left/right political spectrum or if we changed the meaning of the spectrum in its entirety. The Liberals are nowhere near far left, provincially or federally.

Though he said shifted. And relatively speaking, Stephane Dion did oversee a marked leftward shift, Green Shift and everything--and it's under him that the old Chretienites most markedly swung Harperward...

 

[adma]

I need to say, I support same sex marriage, but you're an idiot. People have the right to support whatever they want. They have the right not to support gay marriage. That does not make them a bigot. Calling all of Ford's supporters bigots because of an over reaction to something he said is really stupid.

By definitition, you're an idiot.

Ah, but according to your logic, shouldn't nfitz himself have the right not to support those who do not support gay marriage? So you find him an idiot; big deal. People have the right to support whatever they want; and idiots are people, too;-)

 

[nfitz]

People have the right to support whatever they want. ... That does not make them a bigot.

So if someone decided that they wanted to restore slavery, and they advocate buying a black a black person in theior potting shed to serve them, then that's their right to advocate that?

And that would not make them a bigot?

 

[Riverman]

the NDP out west are more for the common person than here in Toronto.

Not true. The NDP out west (here anyway) are all big union through and through. Even health and enviromental concerns are pushed aside to ensure unions benefit.

 

[nfitz]

So, next mayor of Toronto? Vaughan? Tory? Brant?

Though perhaps better question might be when is the next election. Between his history and poor health, at this point I'd be surprised if Ford actually serves out his term.

 

[MetroMan]

Nah, he survived the campaign which I think is far more grueling than the job of Mayor -- which I'm not saying is easy.

I think we're likely to see THE BIGGEST LOSER - Mayor Rob Ford Edition. The man has to lose weight or he's going to die before he's 50. I'm sure now that he's Mayor, he'll have a lot of encouragement and help from his handlers to do so. They got him to do an anger management course, I'm sure they'll be watching his diet too.

 

[nfitz]

Nah, he survived the campaign which I think is far more grueling than the job of Mayor -- which I'm not saying is easy.

I think the opposite, the mayor's job is very stressful.

And watching Ford's victory speech was very revealing. The way he talked about the councillors having to respect him now, sounded like he has huge self-esteem issues, and that he see's that he will actually get some respect from the other councillors, now he is mayor. And I think the truth will be very different, unless Ford starts being very co-operative and conciliatory, something he's never displayed before.

I fear that when he discovers that he has only one vote, and very little control of a council that still has very little respect of him, that he is going to blow his stack on a frequent basis, bringing embarrassment to him, council, and the reputation of the city in the international media. I also think the stress will be significant, and potentially life-threatening, unless he makes some serious life-style changes. I was shocked to learn that he is only 41 ... I've always assumed he was into his 50s from his photos.

 

[Eug]

So, next mayor of Toronto? Vaughan? Tory? Brant?

Though perhaps better question might be when is the next election. Between his history and poor health, at this point I'd be surprised if Ford actually serves out his term.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ford serves more than one term.

P.S. For those saying it was a suburbs vs core vote, on my way in today I still saw some Ford signs in places like Leaside, etc. Does Leaside count as the suburbs?

 

[Glen]

Toronto Real Estate Board. They publish the numbers every month.

2010-09 416 average: $465890
2010-09 905 average: $402044

Of course, MPAC numbers are significantly lower though, as their numbers often lag, sometimes by several years.

The same way that there are large disparities in home prices in Toronto, the same applies in the 905. Perhaps more so. The 905 region includes far areas and some very distant towns like Mount Albert and East Gwillimbury.

None of this really matters though. What you should be comparing is not mill rates, but the costs of municipal spending per household. Take Toronto's budget and divide it by the number of households. Do the same for the 905 regions. The reason being is that for municipal services, taxes in Toronto are the result of spending in Toronto. They have as much relationship to those Mumbai as they do to Markham. I did such a comparison before.....

Using 2006 data from the Municipal Performance Measurement Program it shows that Toronto spent $8,422 per household in 2006. On the other hand Mississauga and the region of Peel combined, spent $3,848.29 per household.

So the average household in Mississauga pays more than $500 per year in property tax than the average household in Toronto and gets $ 4,573.71 less in services.

Mississauga makes a good comparison because their residential:nonresidential assessment base is nearly identical to Toronto.

 

[TonyV]

Reflecting on the Ford win:

- in the past I supported Miller for city-building issues - especially the waterfront, which is pivotal to the shaping of our city, but my support for him vanished with Transit City. My opinion of Transit City: "guy gets on streetcar and at Don Mills & Steeles and ends up downtown... the next day".

- if the Ford win really is about subways, more power to Ford. I'd love to see a very aggressive subway expansion in all of Toronto - it's imperative, and in the end I think that Miller's under-reach on this issue may well have been his undoing. But I am not so sure that the Ford win is about subways as the Globe suggests in part.

- Miller started to really bug me a year ago because he left himself so exposed. The long and drawn out Nathan Phillips Square renovation is a perfect example. He was okay with a "leisurely pace" on it, to avoid angering the suburban contingent, but in the end he angered them anyway. I can't stand a fence-sitter, that's just my nature, and in the end that's what Miller turned out to be.

 

[PinkLucy]

Anecdotally, the Ford voters I know didn't care about subways. They cared about stopping that freaking gravy train and cutting waste. They didn't want to discuss issues or how Ford's numbers didn't add up, Ford's voting record at City Hall or anything else. They just wanted to "stop the waste". So his talking points that were repeated ad nauseum worked. There was also some homophobia in there, particularly by older people. My own mother said she wouldn't vote for Smitherman because he would just appoint all his boyfriends to key positions (insert major eye roll here).

 

[Simple Man]

That was a factor ^^^

However I know many young people in the suburbs who came out for Ford, and they were just angry at city Hall for increasing taxes and fees in a recession.

Now when I say this, usually a guy comes and says that they are not taxes and they make up 0.1 % of your income and such. Point is the car tax and Land tax added over 200 million dollars to the city budget and the city is still in a hole?


I think Miller use to listen to the people but as he went on, he become resentful to the public as people did not like what he was doing.

 

[Eug]

Well, nobody seemed to want to talk about how Smitherman's numbers didn't necessarily work either. People seemed to vote for Smitherman (myself included) because he was not Ford.

 

[PinkLucy]

Agreed Eug. I certainly did.