[simuls]

Polished concrete is quite common in a lot of new lofts and condos, so there's no legal issue there.

But my question still wasn't answered so I guess I worded it incorrectly. What I'd like to know is...do i still have to have 60% of my concrete floors covered with area rugs to reduce noise, when the condo docs specifically state that that requirement is only for hardwood floor and tile? Because concrete isn't specified as one of the floorings needing to be covered, it would seem to me that it's a loophole in the docs and wouldn't be enforceable until they modified the bylaw. Anyone?

 

[cdr108]

^^^
i believe you answered your own question ...

my guess is unless there are complaints, then the BoD won't amend the condo by-laws.

 

[cdr108]

Owners have right to make noise about loud tenants

http://www.yourhome.ca/homes/column...-have-right-to-make-noise-about-loud-tenants#

Gerry Hyman


Q: The owners of the unit above installed laminate flooring throughout their unit including the bedrooms. The noise transmission is unbearable and sometimes continues into the early hours of the morning. The property manager has responded to my written complaints by advising that the flooring and sound insulation were approved by the condominium's superintendent. Given the fact that the superintendent has no expertise in regard to flooring is there anything I can do?

A: If the declaration or rules required the board's approval for the installation of the flooring that approval should have been given by the board and not by the superintendent. The board, if it gave the approval, should not have relied on the opinion of the superintendent unless the superintendent was able to verify to the satisfaction of the board that the sound insulation met accepted standards for a highrise installation.

The declaration and rules should be examined. There may be a requirement for coverings on all or most of the hard floor areas other than kitchens or bathrooms. Declarations or rules invariably contain provisions prohibiting unreasonable noise or nuisance. Even if the board consented to the installation it has an obligation to determine whether the installation failed to prevent unreasonable noise transmission. If so, the board must take steps to enforce the noise or nuisance prohibition.

The board could arrange for management and perhaps a sound consultant to attend at your unit in an attempt to determine the extent of the noise transmission. The board could demand that a flooring consultant be given access to the unit above to determine if the sound insulation under the flooring is sufficient.

If unsatisfactory noise transmission is established rectification could possibly be accomplished by the occupants of the unit above agreeing not to wear hard shoes in their unit and placing felt pads under furniture or by placing rugs on the floors. If necessary the board should demand that proper sound insulation be installed under the flooring. If the offending owner refuses to take the necessary steps the board should demand mediation and if necessary arbitration with the owner.

If the board declines to deal with the problem you could require mediation with the corporation on the basis that it has failed meet its obligation under the Condominium Act to enforce the declaration or rules. A mediator does not render a decision but attempts to facilitate a resolution between the parties. The disagreement must proceed to arbitration sixty 60 days after a mediation request if the parties have not agreed upon a mediator or thirty 30 days after the mediator delivers a notice that the mediation has failed. An arbitrator will render a binding decision.

 

[PIX]

Sound testing was done on my condo 6 weeks ago. According to Customer Care the report hasn't come in yet. Does this sound reasonable? I get the feeling that they already have the report and are withholding it because Property Management indicated that they won't send a Letter of Enforcement (to the noisy tenant) from the lawyer until the report comes in?

 

[Yossi Kaplan MBA]

Sound testing was done on my condo 6 weeks ago. According to Customer Care the report hasn't come in yet. Does this sound reasonable? I get the feeling that they already have the report and are withholding it because Property Management indicated that they won't send a Letter of Enforcement (to the noisy tenant) from the lawyer until the report comes in?

and what if the report comes in and finds that the noise dampening is indeed within the legal limits? what would you do then?

 

[cdr108]

Sound testing was done on my condo 6 weeks ago. According to Customer Care the report hasn't come in yet. Does this sound reasonable? I get the feeling that they already have the report and are withholding it because Property Management indicated that they won't send a Letter of Enforcement (to the noisy tenant) from the lawyer until the report comes in?

how long did the people doing the sound testing say the report would take?

seems like everything takes "6-8 weeks to process" ... it probably takes them 2 weeks to do but it sounds better if they get it done sooner under the 8 week limit, but allows them enough time to actually do if they happened to miss it and you called at the 6th week ... LOL.

call them 3x / week to light a fire under their asses !

 

[PIX]

how long did the people doing the sound testing say the report would take?

seems like everything takes "6-8 weeks to process" ... it probably takes them 2 weeks to do but it sounds better if they get it done sooner under the 8 week limit, but allows them enough time to actually do if they happened to miss it and you called at the 6th week ... LOL.

call them 3x / week to light a fire under their asses !

Originally Customer Care said 2-3 weeks. When I inquired after 3 weeks I was told that they were expecting a detailed report but he heard that the results "came back within tolerance". When I asked a month later I was told Customer Care was having a meeting about this but the report wasn't in? I emailed Customer Care for the name of the company who did the tests and am waiting for a reply.

 

[cdr108]

Originally Customer Care said 2-3 weeks. When I inquired after 3 weeks I was told that they were expecting a detailed report but he heard that the results "came back within tolerance". When I asked a month later I was told Customer Care was having a meeting about this but the report wasn't in? I emailed Customer Care for the name of the company who did the tests and am waiting for a reply.

"came back within tolerance" ... LOL

that probably means it's right on the border of acceptable depending if they fudge the results enough ... move the equipment 3 feet further along the wall then the noise cancellation is 'okay'; but put it directly across and it's off the scale.

there could be some zones within the walls that didn't get enough insulation.

 

[Team Me]

Not to drag this debate on any longer (in fact, hopefully this will put an end to it), but here are some photos urbandreamer posted last year in the Edge Lofts thread. You can clearly see there are no concrete dividing walls, and there are already studs in place for the unit divisions.

Whether this happens often is still up for debate I suppose, but clearly this kind of construction can be done. And I'm thinking sound between units would be much more noticeable.

 

[ducati0000]

Not to drag this debate on any longer (in fact, hopefully this will put an end to it), but here are some photos urbandreamer posted last year in the Edge Lofts thread. You can clearly see there are no concrete dividing walls, and there are already studs in place for the unit divisions.

Whether this happens often is still up for debate I suppose, but clearly this kind of construction can be done. And I'm thinking sound between units would be much more noticeable.

damn I hope that is a rarity to see paper thin walls like that at the newer condos..thanks heavens my condo (ilofts) is built like a bomb shelter.

 

[RobbieD]

Damn, I feel bad for you PIX. I'm pretty sensitive to noise, and I can imagine being driven to insanity with these people. A saving grace for me has been earplugs, though...have you tried that in the interim? That, combined with the hum of the AC helps.

I too lived in City Place (West One), but thankfully had great neighbours. As far as the sound proofing, I could hear the guy next door play his cello, so I don't think it was that great (how loud can a cello be? Perhaps loud!). And I also know how entirely useless the Cityplace PM is - Andrejs - so I doubt they're being much help.

 

[AKS]

yea musical instruments can be very loud. I think if people yell very loudly, you could probably hear it too if it's next door. Did you hear faint sounds? Or was it a loud sound? I think the wall would filter it somewhat. I hear drilling sounds sometimes.

 

[PIX]

Damn, I feel bad for you PIX. I'm pretty sensitive to noise, and I can imagine being driven to insanity with these people. A saving grace for me has been earplugs, though...have you tried that in the interim? That, combined with the hum of the AC helps.

I too lived in City Place (West One), but thankfully had great neighbours. As far as the sound proofing, I could hear the guy next door play his cello, so I don't think it was that great (how loud can a cello be? Perhaps loud!). And I also know how entirely useless the Cityplace PM is - Andrejs - so I doubt they're being much help.

I have tried earplug but I can't wear ear plugs all day long.

Customer Care finally sent me the sound test report:

September 10, 2009
Concord Adex Developments,
23 Spadina Avenue,
Toronto, ON M5V 3M5.

Adam.Giffen@concordadex.com
RE: Building Code Verification, Construction Acoustic Report for unit # XXXX Aercoustics Engineering Limited has been retained performance of the floor-ceiling assembly at unit #XXXX at 4K Spadina Avenue in regards to airborne sound transmission insulation. A site visit was conducted on August 7, 2009 impact tests were performed on the floor-ceiling assembly and the unit above.
From the testing performed, it is concluded that the construction satisfies the Ontario Building Code sound insulation class requirement and recommended limit.

Andrejs has no reason not to send a letter of enforcement (over 2 months ago) from the Lawyer but I won't hold my breath waiting. On the upside I am putting my new home on the MLS so if anyone is interested in a condo with noisy neighbors above?

 

[PIX]

Update:
Andrejs Management informed me that they had an OK to serve an enforcement letter (from the Lawyer) about 9 weeks ago. After claiming that they would proceed with this letter once the acoustics testing, in my unit, is complete. Now that the testing has completed I was told that they planned to "ask" the tenant to put carpet on her floors which is exclusively laminate with the exception of the washrooms. I doubt if the tenant will go for this. I can see this is just another Andrejs excuse to have this issue drag on for many more months with no resolution. I have sent a complaint letter to the Board but because Management represents the Board I doubt if the Board actually receives the letter.

 

[Monaco]

Now that the testing has completed I was told that they planned to "ask" the tenant to put carpet on her floors which is exclusively laminate with the exception of the washrooms. I doubt if the tenant will go for this.

In some condos, it's in the status certificate that a certain % has to be covered by carpeting/rugs. I'm not sure how they enforce this regularly, but it might make it easier in cases like this.

I'm not used to the noises of condo living either yet. I guess it can never be completely quiet...there are always strange noises.