[Rainforest]

A few thoughts on the routing and stations:

1. Does it really need to stop at Gormley? Middle of nowhere, and already served by several GO trains a day. Maybe, this is some kind of technical station where trains can pass each other, or load supplies?

2. Instead of Gormley, would it be useful to stop at Richmond Hill GO (at Major Mackenzie)? Yes, just 4 km north of Langstaff, but Richmond Hill has a large population and some riders from the north will have friends / relatives there. Or if someone takes the train to go to Mackenzie hospital, it is a lot easier to get there from Richmond Hill GO than from Langstaff GO.

3. Why wouldn't the train stop anywhere in the South Simcoe community, for example Beaverton?

4. The next one is more involved, but from the map it seems possible to serve Orillia from the east (a station in Atherley) if about 20 km of new track is added. From the Hwy 12 and 169 interchange along Hwy 12, then along Rama Road and Monck Road to just before the point where it crosses Hwy 169. The area doesn't look built up.

Orillia would be the 3-rd largest community on the route outside the GTA; smaller than North Bay and Timmins, but larger than Huntsville / Bracebridge / Gravenhurst. And, it has no competing GO train service to Toronto, only the Northlander buses.

5. In Timmins, would it be a good idea to extend the track from the east of Schumacher across the 101, then north of Pearl Lake towards the intersection of Hwy 655 and Ross Ave?

A train station there would be pretty close to the hospital, which is a destination on its own right and a point that can be served by the local transit. And that requires just 3.5 km of new track.

 

[micheal_can]

The government made the announcement at the end of intact rail so it seems it is a fait acccompli (or the train has left the station - take your pick). Extending the line to Gold Centre at the end of I think what is called the 'Hydro spur' would be costly as the infrastructure is a mess. Trying to get it downtown would obviously be moreso. When the tracks ran into downtown, it still had some freight revenue to justify it. I suppose if we want to make this initiative really expensive and possibly give the government an out, go ahead.

I think the push for an actual Timmins Station is more after the train has been back If after 5-10 years of operation and the trains are consistently full,

1. Does it really need to stop at Gormley? Middle of nowhere, and already served by several GO trains a day. Maybe, this is some kind of technical station where trains can pass each other, or load supplies?

The fact that it is close to the 404 makes it a good choice.

2. Instead of Gormley, would it be useful to stop at Richmond Hill GO (at Major Mackenzie)? Yes, just 4 km north of Langstaff, but Richmond Hill has a large population and some riders from the north will have friends / relatives there. Or if someone takes the train to go to Mackenzie hospital, it is a lot easier to get there from Richmond Hill GO than from Langstaff GO.

Reality is, it is not an interchange station as Langstaff is. Adding more stops does not make sense unless they will be regular draws. Think of it from a rider's perspective. What is in Richmond Hill that would be a draw for northerners? Where would people in Richmond Hill be going?

3. Why wouldn't the train stop anywhere in the South Simcoe community, for example Beaverton?

Likely cost and travel patterns. A Beaverton stop would not be good for going north, but going south it would be.

4. The next one is more involved, but from the map it seems possible to serve Orillia from the east (a station in Atherley) if about 20 km of new track is added. From the Hwy 12 and 169 interchange along Hwy 12, then along Rama Road and Monck Road to just before the point where it crosses Hwy 169. The area doesn't look built up.

Orillia would be the 3-rd largest community on the route outside the GTA; smaller than North Bay and Timmins, but larger than Huntsville / Bracebridge / Gravenhurst. And, it has no competing GO train service to Toronto, only the Northlander buses.

Like I said about extending in Timmins, if the business case can be made for it, then it might be able to be done. Remember, we are trying to get the line back, not expand it..... yet....

5. In Timmins, would it be a good idea to extend the track from the east of Schumacher across the 101, then north of Pearl Lake towards the intersection of Hwy 655 and Ross Ave?

A train station there would be pretty close to the hospital, which is a destination on its own right and a point that can be served by the local transit. And that requires just 3.5 km of new track.

The thing is, the Timmins Hospital is not a draw from south.

 

[lenaitch]

A few thoughts on the routing and stations:

1. Does it really need to stop at Gormley? Middle of nowhere, and already served by several GO trains a day. Maybe, this is some kind of technical station where trains can pass each other, or load supplies?

2. Instead of Gormley, would it be useful to stop at Richmond Hill GO (at Major Mackenzie)? Yes, just 4 km north of Langstaff, but Richmond Hill has a large population and some riders from the north will have friends / relatives there. Or if someone takes the train to go to Mackenzie hospital, it is a lot easier to get there from Richmond Hill GO than from Langstaff GO.

3. Why wouldn't the train stop anywhere in the South Simcoe community, for example Beaverton?

4. The next one is more involved, but from the map it seems possible to serve Orillia from the east (a station in Atherley) if about 20 km of new track is added. From the Hwy 12 and 169 interchange along Hwy 12, then along Rama Road and Monck Road to just before the point where it crosses Hwy 169. The area doesn't look built up.

Orillia would be the 3-rd largest community on the route outside the GTA; smaller than North Bay and Timmins, but larger than Huntsville / Bracebridge / Gravenhurst. And, it has no competing GO train service to Toronto, only the Northlander buses.

5. In Timmins, would it be a good idea to extend the track from the east of Schumacher across the 101, then north of Pearl Lake towards the intersection of Hwy 655 and Ross Ave?

A train station there would be pretty close to the hospital, which is a destination on its own right and a point that can be served by the local transit. And that requires just 3.5 km of new track.

This belongs in a fantasy thread. No new track is being laid.

I don't follow Timmins-area media that closely but I'm not seeing any push to extend the train into the downtown.

 

[micheal_can]

This belongs in a fantasy thread. No new track is being laid.

I don't follow Timmins-area media that closely but I'm not seeing any push to extend the train into the downtown.

There is no push because they don't think it will happen. That is why I give it 5-10 years after it is up and running to hear any desire to extend it closer.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

I will say if a Timmins extension comes in to play, I'd argue for something more than the plain spur. Assuming a true overnight Polar Bear extension / second train is off the table, I see a very good case for extending the Polar Bear into Timmins.

 

[Urban Sky]

I will say if a Timmins extension comes in to play, I'd argue for something more than the plain spur. Assuming a true overnight Polar Bear extension / second train is off the table, I see a very good case for extending the Polar Bear into Timmins.

Given that Ontario Northland’s facilities are in Cochrane and the Southbound train only arrives Cochrane at 10pm, I don’t see any compelling case for extending the Polar Bear Express to Timmins…

 

[micheal_can]

I will say if a Timmins extension comes in to play, I'd argue for something more than the plain spur. Assuming a true overnight Polar Bear extension / second train is off the table, I see a very good case for extending the Polar Bear into Timmins.

The problem with that is:

1) they have box cars and flat cars with vehicles on it to marshal.
2) They do the run the same day, with one crew. Extending it by an extra 2 hours (1 hour each way), the train crew would run out of time.

A solution for this is what they used to have, 2 trains. The Little Bear and the Polar Bear. One was just passengers and one was a mixed train.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

A solution for this is what they used to have, 2 trains. The Little Bear and the Polar Bear. One was just passengers and one was a

At this point it’s probably just time to bring back a through train to Toronto.

 

[micheal_can]

At this point it’s probably just time to bring back a through train to Toronto.

There was never a train from Moosonee to Toronto.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

There was never a train from Moosonee to Toronto.

I mean no, but the overnight train to Cochrane made the connection... So if we are getting to the point of running a second service I'd argue the best option would be an actual through train rather than timing for better connections.

 

[micheal_can]

I mean no, but the overnight train to Cochrane made the connection... So if we are getting to the point of running a second service I'd argue the best option would be an actual through train rather than timing for better connections.

I feel that there will not be any connecting train between the 2 anytime soon.

 

[micheal_can]

I have noticed that some of us are dreamers.

The existing Bala Sub/North Newmarket CN subs and the ONR line to the end of line ONR near Timmins is all we are getting when (if) the Northlander returns. That is it.

Adding/removing stations in the GTA likely won't happen.
Routing through the old ROW in Orillia is a good idea, but it likely won't happen.
Extending it to downtown Timmins, although a good idea, likely won't happen.
Changing the Polar Bear Express to end in Timmins likely won't happen.

In short, we will be lucky if we get it back. The rest is dreams.

 

[crs1026]

A few thoughts on the routing and stations:

1. Does it really need to stop at Gormley? Middle of nowhere, and already served by several GO trains a day. Maybe, this is some kind of technical station where trains can pass each other, or load supplies?

2. Instead of Gormley, would it be useful to stop at Richmond Hill GO (at Major Mackenzie)? Yes, just 4 km north of Langstaff, but Richmond Hill has a large population and some riders from the north will have friends / relatives there. Or if someone takes the train to go to Mackenzie hospital, it is a lot easier to get there from Richmond Hill GO than from Langstaff GO.

3. Why wouldn't the train stop anywhere in the South Simcoe community, for example Beaverton?

4. The next one is more involved, but from the map it seems possible to serve Orillia from the east (a station in Atherley) if about 20 km of new track is added. From the Hwy 12 and 169 interchange along Hwy 12, then along Rama Road and Monck Road to just before the point where it crosses Hwy 169. The area doesn't look built up.

Orillia would be the 3-rd largest community on the route outside the GTA; smaller than North Bay and Timmins, but larger than Huntsville / Bracebridge / Gravenhurst. And, it has no competing GO train service to Toronto, only the Northlander buses.

There is little or no point in stopping anywhere between Washago and Richmond Hill.

The market for this train is between points north of Washago and the GTA. This train should not be conflated with service between the Rama-Gormley-Bloomington area and central Toronto, which is an entirely different market with its own needs. Carrying empty seats all the way to Timmins while only attracting revenue between Toronto and Beaverton is very poor utilisation of the train's capacity.

I agree that one stop in the Richmond Hill-Langstaff area is desirable, as there may be sufficient ridership from points north of Washago who would be inconvenienced by having to trek all the way to Union and then back up. I'm not fussy about where that stop should be, so long as it has the best transit connections for the first/last mile leg of the trip.

- Paul

 

[wopchop]

Langstaff is a good connection. It not only has good highway access, but also YRT/VIVA/GO bus connrctions, and in the future subway service.

In the future maybe they can look at increasing frequencies, but first proving the core service should be the goal. If they want to serve a commuter market it seems like it would make more sense to extend GO from Gormley than it would to hobble the long distance optimization of this service.

 

[lenaitch]

There is little or no point in stopping anywhere between Washago and Richmond Hill.

The market for this train is between points north of Washago and the GTA. This train should not be conflated with service between the Rama-Gormley-Bloomington area and central Toronto, which is an entirely different market with its own needs. Carrying empty seats all the way to Timmins while only attracting revenue between Toronto and Beaverton is very poor utilisation of the train's capacity.

I agree that one stop in the Richmond Hill-Langstaff area is desirable, as there may be sufficient ridership from points north of Washago who would be inconvenienced by having to trek all the way to Union and then back up. I'm not fussy about where that stop should be, so long as it has the best transit connections for the first/last mile leg of the trip.

- Paul

Agree. There might be some argument to dump Washago in favour of a stop in Beaverton or Brechin to try and pick up some Kawartha Lakes customers, but I don't think it's rally that important. Washago is only about 20km from G'Hurst (same to Orillia) and Brechin is about 20km from Orillia, so little difference to Brechin for any north Simcoe customers. But, as you say, the market is north.