[micheal_can]

Agree. There might be some argument to dump Washago in favour of a stop in Beaverton or Brechin to try and pick up some Kawartha Lakes customers, but I don't think it's rally that important. Washago is only about 20km from G'Hurst (same to Orillia) and Brechin is about 20km from Orillia, so little difference to Brechin for any north Simcoe customers. But, as you say, the market is north.

The province could make a business case for a separate Toronto - North Bay service that stops at places like Beaverton, Brechin, Orillia and even places like Powassan, Trout Creek, Sundridge and Burks Falls along with the other stops

 

[lenaitch]

The province could make a business case for a separate Toronto - North Bay service that stops at places like Beaverton, Brechin, Orillia and even places like Powassan, Trout Creek, Sundridge and Burks Falls along with the other stops

People keep taking about Orillia. The. Tracks. Don't. Go. There.

There needs to be a reasonable distance between stations otherwise it turns into an absolute milk run with times worse that it used to have, and the more stops on the Bala sub, the more it might complicate its window within the rest of CN's traffic. Beaverton to Brechin is only ~15km, Powassan to NB is about 30km. The former stop at South River, and the only that is being 'discussed' with the renewal proposal, is the community that is roughly equidistant between Huntsville and North Bay.

 

[micheal_can]

People keep taking about Orillia. The. Tracks. Don't. Go. There.

There needs to be a reasonable distance between stations otherwise it turns into an absolute milk run with times worse that it used to have, and the more stops on the Bala sub, the more it might complicate its window within the rest of CN's traffic. Beaverton to Brechin is only ~15km, Powassan to NB is about 30km. The former stop at South River, and the only that is being 'discussed' with the renewal proposal, is the community that is roughly equidistant between Huntsville and North Bay.

I meant as a separate service, not adding it to the single service.
2 Trains, one terminates in Timmins, which skips much of those stops south of North Bay, and the other that terminates in North Bay, and, for lack of better way of saying it, is a milk run. Think of it as a local and express service, like how some GO Trains skip stations.

A quick look on a satellite view, Orillia's ROW may be intact enough to get it back.

Remember, both GO transit and ONR are under the MTO, so something could be done.

 

[Urban Sky]

I meant as a separate service, not adding it to the single service.
2 Trains, one terminates in Timmins, which skips much of those stops south of North Bay, and the other that terminates in North Bay, and, for lack of better way of saying it, is a milk run. Think of it as a local and express service, like how some GO Trains skip stations.

A quick look on a satellite view, Orillia's ROW may be intact enough to get it back.

Remember, both GO transit and ONR are under the MTO, so something could be done.

Maybe someone who hasn’t already been blocked by him can make Sudbury’s finest troll aware that there is another city through which the abandoned segment of the Newmarket passed - a city which has reclaimed and redeveloped its entire waterfront from the railways and which has virtually nothing to gain from a rail connection to Timmins, as they already have frequent rail service to Toronto…

 

[lenaitch]

I meant as a separate service, not adding it to the single service.
2 Trains, one terminates in Timmins, which skips much of those stops south of North Bay, and the other that terminates in North Bay, and, for lack of better way of saying it, is a milk run. Think of it as a local and express service, like how some GO Trains skip stations.

A quick look on a satellite view, Orillia's ROW may be intact enough to get it back.

Remember, both GO transit and ONR are under the MTO, so something could be done.

I guess "intact enough" is in the eyes of the beholder and, even as a stub, in-and-out line from Washago to Orillia (because the Barrie waterfront is almost completely built over) would require significant property re-acquisition, both in the city as well as Rama FNT, plus the very expensive restoration and operation of a swing bridge. All of this for, what, the ones of Orillia residents who want to travel north but not go to Washago, or travel south, but don't want to go to Barrie for one of the 5 trains or hourly buses.

 

[micheal_can]

I guess "intact enough" is in the eyes of the beholder and, even as a stub, in-and-out line from Washago to Orillia (because the Barrie waterfront is almost completely built over) would require significant property re-acquisition, both in the city as well as Rama FNT, plus the very expensive restoration and operation of a swing bridge. All of this for, what, the ones of Orillia residents who want to travel north but not go to Washago, or travel south, but don't want to go to Barrie for one of the 5 trains or hourly buses.

Orllia GO - Google My Maps

From he Barrie Line north to Orillia and to Washago

www.google.com

It is not that horrible if you wanted to do it.

 

[crs1026]

It is not that horrible if you wanted to do it.

The tracks would go...... where?

- Paul

Seriously....never mind the amount of municipal and landowner pushback (those are very big homes along the old right of way, people who could muster considerable political clout, I bet) - Barrie has done an excellent job redeveloping its harbour, thanks to the removal of the railway. There is absolutely nothing gained by tearing that up so that Orillia can have a rail connection. And all that redevelopment investment would be eroded.

 

[micheal_can]

The tracks would go...... where?

- Paul

Seriously....never mind the amount of municipal and landowner pushback (those are very big homes along the old right of way, people who could muster considerable political clout, I bet) - Barrie has done an excellent job redeveloping its harbour, thanks to the removal of the railway. There is absolutely nothing gained by tearing that up so that Orillia can have a rail connection. And all that redevelopment investment would be eroded.


View attachment 447307View attachment 447308View attachment 447310

Did you even bother opening up the map?

 

[dowlingm]

for a town of 30,000 or so, reinstating rail to/through seems like an excessive spend for even the most optimistic return - and all for one train a day? When Timmins, a larger town, will be left with the railhead 14 km away in Porcupine? Not happening.

 

[micheal_can]

for a town of 30,000 or so, reinstating rail to/through seems like an excessive spend for even the most optimistic return - and all for one train a day? When Timmins, a larger town, will be left with the railhead 14 km away in Porcupine? Not happening.

If service was restored, there is a potential for GO to be extended there. Who thought Barrie would see passenger service after Via/ONR was moved out of there?

 

[dowlingm]

If service was restored, there is a potential for GO to be extended there. Who thought Barrie would see passenger service after Via/ONR was moved out of there?

your map elides over the issue of restoring a track through Rama FN which opted to build over the former alignment and then builds a entire new alignment with some sharp turns, and lands on the CP. not so much unlikely as simply desperate to say something is doable. Comparing that to the Barrie reinstatement (which initially only landed at Barrie South, which operates at higher frequency and larger trainsets, and had a significant bus service building demand) is not the winner you clearly think it is)

 

[micheal_can]

your map elides over the issue of restoring a track through Rama FN which opted to build over the former alignment and then builds a entire new alignment with some sharp turns, and lands on the CP. not so much unlikely as simply desperate to say something is doable. Comparing that to the Barrie reinstatement (which initially only landed at Barrie South, which operates at higher frequency and larger trainsets, and had a significant bus service building demand) is not the winner you clearly think it is)

Those sharp turns are more for an indication as to an area that it could be put, not the exact alignment.

Personally, I doubt Orillia will see a train in our lifetimes. However, if one were to be put in, I feel somewhere around that alignment is where it would go.

 

[reaperexpress]

Langstaff is a good connection. It not only has good highway access, but also YRT/VIVA/GO bus connrctions, and in the future subway service.

In the future maybe they can look at increasing frequencies, but first proving the core service should be the goal. If they want to serve a commuter market it seems like it would make more sense to extend GO from Gormley than it would to hobble the long distance optimization of this service.

Yeah it is definitely a worthwhile stop for people heading to/from the north. It provides much quicker access to/from most of the GTA (including Pearson Airport) than Union, thanks to the 407 GO bus service.

For the same reason, I think it would also be a good stop for the VIA Canadian service. Furthermore, the northbound/westbound VIA train takes forever to get from Union to Langstaff because it does a three-point turn at Snider Diamond on the way. Allowing suburban travellers to board the train at Langstaff would save them a lot of time.

The length of the Canadian would necessitate moving the platform north to avoid obstructing the Langstaff Road level crossing, but that's probably worthwhile regardless to reduce the walking distance from the Richmond Hill Centre bus terminal.

 

[micheal_can]

Yeah it is definitely a worthwhile stop for people heading to/from the north. It provides much quicker access to/from most of the GTA (including Pearson Airport) than Union, thanks to the 407 GO bus service.

For the same reason, I think it would also be a good stop for the VIA Canadian service. Furthermore, the northbound/westbound VIA train takes forever to get from Union to Langstaff because it does a three-point turn at Snider Diamond on the way. Allowing suburban travellers to board the train at Langstaff would save them a lot of time.

The length of the Canadian would necessitate moving the platform north to avoid obstructing the Langstaff Road level crossing, but that's probably worthwhile regardless to reduce the walking distance from the Richmond Hill Centre bus terminal.

A ride down to Union would be an easy transfer to UP instead of a bus.

 

[reaperexpress]

A ride down to Union would be an easy transfer to UP instead of a bus.

From Langstaff to Union the Richmond Hill line takes 41 minutes, with two intermediate stops. So running non-stop the Northlander would take about 37 minutes. Union to Pearson takes 25 minutes.
Total in-vehicle time is thus 62 minutes.

I'm not sure exactly how long the northbound Canadian takes, but it will be a lot more than 40 minutes given the 3-point turn they do at Snider diamond. Probably closer to an hour, producing a total time of nearly 90 minutes from the Airport to Langstaff if you go via Union.

From Richmond Hill Centre it's only a 30 minute single-seat ride on GO Route 40 to Pearson. I nearly always take route 40 to/from the airport, and in my experience it is fast, comfortable and reliable.

The transfer times should be similar - both Langstaff and Union involve a long walking transfer. The waiting times should also be similar - both the UP Express and Route 40 run every 30 minutes.