[narduch]

The "street" isn't particularly astute at this point. But "hatred" is correct - and it's rather fact-free; apparently something in Wynne's personality is irritating people - so what? Is it possible to be more superficial? Electing Ford and his team will lead to service cuts, and people are already complaining about the services they get. Mistakes aside - including the gas power plant cancellation, whose $1 billion cost represents 0.09% of the province's budget since it happened - Ontario is already managed conservatively. With program spending as low as it is compared to other provinces, any cut will hurt, and despite all the hot air, there is very little "waste" to be eliminated. There certainly wasn't in Toronto under the other Ford.

This is Wynne and the Liberals own fault that they are at this spot though.

Wynne promised that she would be different then McGuinty. But she hasn't been able to show Ontarians that she is running the province any better. The Hydro sale is one example of terrible policy. I don't want to reward her and her party for that. And that's just one issue.

Where is the accountability? What Liberal has paid any price for any of their scandals?

They are so arrogant that they think they can just brush off the past and buy us with spending on social programs.

 

[old boy]

This is Wynne and the Liberals own fault that they are at this spot though.

Wynne promised that she would be different then McGuinty. But she hasn't been able to show Ontarians that she is running the province any better. The Hydro sale is one example of terrible policy. I don't want to reward her and her party for that. And that's just one issue.

Where is the accountability? What Liberal has paid any price for any of their scandals?

They are so arrogant that they think they can just brush off the past and buy us with spending on social programs.

I agree with much you say, but I'll go ahead and say the politically incorrect thing anyway ; a Wynne re-election is better than a Ford nightmare. This lout is ready for the carving.

 

[narduch]

I agree with much you say, but I'll go ahead and say the politically incorrect thing anyway ; a Wynne re-election is better than a Ford nightmare. This lout is ready for the carving.

I agree Ford will be a disaster. I am voting against him for sure.

But I'm not naive enough to think he can't win this .

 

[Bayer]

This is Wynne and the Liberals own fault that they are at this spot though.

Wynne promised that she would be different then McGuinty. But she hasn't been able to show Ontarians that she is running the province any better. The Hydro sale is one example of terrible policy. I don't want to reward her and her party for that. And that's just one issue.

Where is the accountability? What Liberal has paid any price for any of their scandals?

They are so arrogant that they think they can just brush off the past and buy us with spending on social programs.

I still believe most politicians are there to serve, so I'm not thinking in terms of reward or punishment; I'm thinking of the future - of who can best take the province in a direction I agree with. I find it overly cynical to believe the government has made a left turn purely for electoral reasons. I'm not going to vote against a government that has done precisely what I want, though belatedly, and has therefore earned enough credibility to make me believe that they do intend to continue in that direction, only because their motives might be wrong. But of course, with FPTP, I always vote strategically and I am theoretically an NDP voter, so we'll see who is running in University-Rosedale.

 

[TrickyRicky]

You can go back 10 years on this site and read my harsh criticism of the Fords even before they were a thing but this election is going to be about Ontario not the Fords or right-wing populism.

The not getting it going on here is there is not a recognition of how ruinous Ontario Liberal policies have been to many people’s lives. This is the reality on the ground not a partisan jab. Wynne’s 18-19 % approval rating is not because she is a Liberal, it’s not because she is a woman or a Lesbian, it’s not because her policies aren’t well meaning or pointing in the right direction in many cases. The issue is a complete disconnect between government policy and it’s consequences in the real world, it’s the rate of change that feels like an outright assault on people’s lives. It’s about creating problems we’re there were none, then making things worse trying to fix them.

 

[JWBF]

All I can say right now is wow...

 

[zang]

The not getting it going on here is there is not a recognition of how ruinous Ontario Liberal policies have been to many people’s lives. This is the reality on the ground not a partisan jab. Wynne’s 18-19 % approval rating is not because she is a Liberal, it’s not because she is a woman or a Lesbian, it’s not because her policies aren’t well meaning or pointing in the right direction in many cases. The issue is a complete disconnect between government policy and it’s consequences in the real world, it’s the rate of change that feels like an outright assault on people’s lives. It’s about creating problems we’re there were none, then making things worse trying to fix them.

For a certain group, it *is* because she's a lesbian, and because our new sex ed curriculum is "teaching elementary school kids how to have anal sex". It doesn't take much searching to find plenty of comments about this. Sure, the swing vote might be about her policies (as it is with all elections), but that doesn't represent all that many people. The Fords have a way of bringing out the socially (and rightfully so in many cases) disenfranchised, who are given justification for false, bigoted and arrogant things they just "believe", and get rewarded for their ignorance. Case in point:

This woman above repeatedly made this claim to me, despite my pointing her to the elementary school curriculum online, quoting the mentions of anal sex, and even posting the page numbers so she could read them herself. It mentions anal all of four times, and all in the context of abstinence, consent and STIs. But she kept on chugging along on this belief that kindergarteners are learning to have anal sex because of Wynne. And it's made 100x worse because of Wynne's sexual orientation.

Ignorant politicians bring out ignorant votes. Many of the people who would swing Ford to a win would not have voted for Elliot, Mulroney, Wynne or Horvath or anyone else in this election. They want the guy who makes them feel proud of their ignorance.

My only solace in all of this is that I've seen numerous long-time Conservative voters looking to abstain entirely, or cast votes for other parties—because of Ford.

 

[torontologist]

You can go back 10 years on this site and read my harsh criticism of the Fords even before they were a thing but this election is going to be about Ontario not the Fords or right-wing populism.

The not getting it going on here is there is not a recognition of how ruinous Ontario Liberal policies have been to many people’s lives. This is the reality on the ground not a partisan jab. Wynne’s 18-19 % approval rating is not because she is a Liberal, it’s not because she is a woman or a Lesbian, it’s not because her policies aren’t well meaning or pointing in the right direction in many cases. The issue is a complete disconnect between government policy and it’s consequences in the real world, it’s the rate of change that feels like an outright assault on people’s lives. It’s about creating problems we’re there were none, then making things worse trying to fix them.

Ruinous? Holy hyperbole, Batman. Yes, some people had to pay a lot more for their hydro (all of our bills have gone up, and not everyone feels personally victimized, just saying). That may have seemed ruinous... and you know what, those people are justified in voting PC or ONDP. I can't think of another policy that was ruinous. And guess what, the failed implementation of the Green Energy Act was under the McGuinty government, not Wynne's. I can only fault her for not publicly purging the people responsible.

I can guarantee you that a much, much larger percent of the population have benefitted from provincial policies in the last 5 years. Grants for underprivileged university students, free meds for young people, raising the minimum wage, the universal income project, etc.

If you think that the fact that Wynne is a woman and a lesbian does not affect her standing in the polls, then you are probably a straight man unable to see what's going on here (I don't mean that as an ad hominem). That her approval rating is so much lower with men in particular is proof enough that her identity gives people a very easy reason to dismiss her. It makes it very easy to place the blame for the last decade and a half of Liberal governance on her. Blame the party, not the Premier. And yet, that's what the PC's are going for.... I wonder why.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

They will be so happy to be in power they won't care how bad Ford does.
Just like Republicans with Trump now.

Indeed, and now they are between a rock and a hard place. Selling your soul is an act with a price tag attached.

AoD

 

[PinkLucy]

When I get these love letters from Doug, all I can think is "HOW?" Sadly, many people will just go with it and think he's some kind of saviour.

On June 7, a new day will dawn.

Relief is on the way.

We are going to fix hydro.

Fix taxes.

Fix regulations.

We're going to make Ontario open for business.

We're going to make sure there are jobs and opportunities not just for the select few, but for all the people of Ontario.

 

[pman]

Ruinous? Holy hyperbole, Batman. Yes, some people had to pay a lot more for their hydro (all of our bills have gone up, and not everyone feels personally victimized, just saying). That may have seemed ruinous... and you know what, those people are justified in voting PC or ONDP. I can't think of another policy that was ruinous. And guess what, the failed implementation of the Green Energy Act was under the McGuinty government, not Wynne's. I can only fault her for not publicly purging the people responsible.

I can guarantee you that a much, much larger percent of the population have benefitted from provincial policies in the last 5 years. Grants for underprivileged university students, free meds for young people, raising the minimum wage, the universal income project, etc.

If you think that the fact that Wynne is a woman and a lesbian does not affect her standing in the polls, then you are probably a straight man unable to see what's going on here (I don't mean that as an ad hominem). That her approval rating is so much lower with men in particular is proof enough that her identity gives people a very easy reason to dismiss her. It makes it very easy to place the blame for the last decade and a half of Liberal governance on her. Blame the party, not the Premier. And yet, that's what the PC's are going for.... I wonder why.

This just in...telling someone they incapable of understanding the truth because they’re “probably a straight man unable to see what’s going on here” is an ad hominem argument. Literally, in this case. And then claiming it isn’t is simply an attempt to weasel out of what you wrote in the previous sentence. Of course, you didn’t accuse TR of being a white, cis-gender settler, so I suppose we should be grateful. Because, like, the intersectionality...

 

[syn]

I would be curious to know how exactly Liberal policies have been ruinous to the province.

 

[narduch]

I would be curious to know how exactly Liberal policies have been ruinous to the province.

I think the sale of Hydro One is going to bite us in the ass in the long run.

People in rural areas have had their Electricity rates increase so much that they could no longer afford it, and were being cut off. I know we all live in our own little bubble in the GTA.

 

[syn]

I think the sale of Hydro One is going to bite us in the ass in the long run.

People in rural areas have had their Electricity rates increase so much that they could no longer afford it, and were being cut off. I know we all live in our own little bubble in the GTA.

I wasn't for the sale of Hydro One. Definitely something that won't be good for the province. However, during the first PC Leadership Debate, they were all asked point blank about Hydro. The result was a uniform blank stare.

The Conservatives would've done the exact same thing.

My question was a serious one. While the Liberals have made plenty of mistakes, they've also made some wise investments. There is a large debt which needs to be a addressed, but right now things are going pretty well for Ontario, overall.

We're all familiar with Hydro and the scandals - but what other policies have been 'ruinous' for the province?

 

[L23]

This just in...telling someone they incapable of understanding the truth because they’re “probably a straight man unable to see what’s going on here” is an ad hominem argument. Literally, in this case. And then claiming it isn’t is simply an attempt to weasel out of what you wrote in the previous sentence. Of course, you didn’t accuse TR of being a white, cis-gender settler, so I suppose we should be grateful. Because, like, the intersectionality...

What a succinct way of proving the Torontologist's post.