innsertnamehere
Superstar
Interesting that It's still a City of Toronto procurement.
|
|
|
- Thread starter jozl
- Start date
kotsy
Senior Member
So everything they've installed so far that we (or I) assumed was road deck, was actually girders. With the start of concrete road base being poured last week.
robmausser
Senior Member
Does anyone know if any kind of newer tech is being used on this road deck? We learned years ago that concrete is porous and doesn't protect the rebar from salt damage. I know there are lots of new technologies like using specially treated rebar, coating the rebar in rubber or even using composites instead of metal at all. Anything used? Or in typical Toronto fashion are we just building as cheaply as possible, repeating the same mistakes and screw the future.
darth_freeman
Active Member
427 to Humber was also posted https://www.toronto.ca/business-eco...tal/#all/8d7ad091-1619-4943-9832-56e5c5e8daf4
innsertnamehere
Superstar
This is the part I am most interested in as the City completed an EA on some (minor) alignment and interchange improvements on this part just over a decade ago. I'm curious if they still plan on implementing those changes or just rebuilding the highway "as is".
infrastructureTO
New Member
There are a couple new details that should make the structure more durable:
- Stainless steel are being used in areas prone to chlorine penetration (i.e. top of the deck, barrier walls, pier caps)
- Concrete deck waterproofing
- Elimination of deck expansion joints to prevent water leakage into the pier bents (this is the most effective aspect of this rehabilitation)
FYI, epoxy-coated rebars are not very corrosion-resistant and are no longer used in bridge structures.
CapitalSeven
Senior Member
So, is the possibility that Gardiner 2.0 will last longer than the original good news or bad? 
smallspy
Senior Member
Well, if it requires less maintenance and therefore less cost to keep it operating safely, I think that we can take that as a minor win.So, is the possibility that Gardiner 2.0 will last longer than the original good news or bad?
Dan
WalkieScorchie
Active Member
What about fiberglass rebar? I've seen more examples of this being used in bridge/road construction in Canada. While one can argue it's more expensive, you can actually deliver more material per shipment and its easier to move on site due to it's light weight. IMO this is the project to use that on, but I'm glad to hear that there are already other efforts being made to mitigate deterioration (esp. waterproofing)
infrastructureTO
New Member
In terms of price, I think FRP and stainless reinforcements are somewhat similar, stainless steel might even be more expensive.
There are some constructability issues with FRP bars because they are very brittle compared to steel. They are hard to bend and are almost impossible to be field bent. In addition, if the City ever wanted to modify the structure which requires chipping out the FRP-reinforced concrete, the FRP rebars will break very easily and likely cannot be reused.
The MTO has standard details for concrete barrier walls where FRP rebars are used exclusively. FRP reinforcement is definitely something that is always considered in a new design or a rehabilitation project.
darth_freeman
Active Member
I was surprised to read the Gardiner alone transports almost as many people per year as the entire GO Train network. This checks out is GO says they have about 70 million passengers per year and Gardiner 140k vehicles (so more passengers) per day (55M per year). These numbers much closer than I expected and really underscore The Gardiner's importance.
Does anyone know the expected ridership of GO Transit once the key lines are electrified with 15 minute all day service (RIP Milton Line)?
Does anyone know the expected ridership of GO Transit once the key lines are electrified with 15 minute all day service (RIP Milton Line)?
All About GO Transit
GO Transit is the regional public transit service for the Greater Golden Horseshoe.
www.gotransit.com
Tuscani01
Senior Member
Just underscores how much more important transit is vs. the Gardiner if a limited service commuter rail system carries more than a highway that operates 24/7, 362 days a year.I was surprised to read the Gardiner alone transports almost as many people per year as the entire GO Train network. This checks out is GO says they have about 70 million passengers per year and Gardiner 140k vehicles (so more passengers) per day (55M per year). These numbers much closer than I expected and really underscore The Gardiner's importance.
Does anyone know the expected ridership of GO Transit once the key lines are electrified with 15 minute all day service (RIP Milton Line)?
All About GO Transit
GO Transit is the regional public transit service for the Greater Golden Horseshoe.www.gotransit.com
turbanplanner
Senior Member
Keep in mind almost everyone on the GO is coming from outside the city
innsertnamehere
Superstar
The Gardiner is also only 1 out of two downtown Freeways - the DVP carries similar (albeit slightly lower) numbers.
Also, a lot of Gardiner traffic splits off and take Lakeshore into the City instead, so it depends where they are measuring the Gardiner traffic, but there is a lot more traffic coming in there too.
Transit modal shares in the downtown as a whole are around 80-85% from what I remember, but the majority of the transit use is ultimately still TTC travel, particularly from downtown-adjacent areas.
The Gardiner and DVP remain critical for "regional" type trips in and around Downtown, specifically, for events, etc. The vast majority of commuters use transit. GO Expansion should help shift some of these regional trips to transit, but the Gardiner / DVP will always be important in getting goods and people into and out of the downtown.
evandyk
Senior Member
Which is exactly why it should be tolled.