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Haljackey said:
That SB to EB ramp to 401/407 looks insane. Likely Canada's longest and highest flyover if built.


Would there really be that much demand for such an expensive structure for that link? I can't see it being used too much? A loop may be better and looks like it can fit so long as it goes over/under the 401EB to 407EB connection.
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I rather suspect that's actually the heaviest use connection for the interchange.
 
dullturtle06 said:
I dont understand why Ontario highway design uses so much land. Like in the US and Europe highways are minimized as much as possible to limit the damage. The MTO seems to have the mentality of, how do we make this highway a big as possible. Highways should be safe but made as small as possible.
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Larger land use = smoother ramps = higher speed allowed on the ramps = less prone to backups causing congestion

Do we agree with this design is the question. Ramps like 401 east to the 400 or 401 east to the 404/DVP are examples of tighter ramps with low speed design. We usually see a huge backup at these spots spilling onto the main through traffic. This is why the 401east is usually congested from the 427 to the 400 and from Bayview or Leslie to the 404 in the collectors.

As for the wide grass medium, MTO believes it is effective in preventing head on collections without a massive concrete wall and helps with the water drainage. It's also great for lane expansions like the 403, 404, 407 and 410 used to have grass mediums.
 
dullturtle06 said:
I dont understand why Ontario highway design uses so much land. Like in the US and Europe highways are minimized as much as possible to limit the damage. The MTO seems to have the mentality of, how do we make this highway a big as possible. Highways should be safe but made as small as possible.
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Many people have already said why, but I'll add a few. 1) The MTO wants to add a transitway along this highway, and the median could be a good place to put it (although I feel like it would be better on the southside). 2), Large medians are considered to be far safer than any form of alternative barrier. If something happens and you're forced off the road, you're given plenty of space to safely stop and drive back onto the road, instead of totaling your car colliding with a barrier, or worse, getting into a head on collision.
 
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Bureaucromancer said:
I rather suspect that's actually the heaviest use connection for the interchange.
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Really? How so? You're essentially backtracking since GTA West goes... well west lol

Why would I get on the highway at any of the major highway connections just go go back on 401 or 407 EB? Am I missing something here? If I'm heading into Greater Toronto, I'd use this highway from the 400 to access the 427 or 410 maybe, or 401 WB but not EB.
 
Haljackey said:
Really? How so? You're essentially backtracking since GTA West goes... well west lol

Why would I get on the highway at any of the major highway connections just go go back on 401 or 407 EB? Am I missing something here? If I'm heading into Greater Toronto, I'd use this highway from the 400 to access the 427 or 410 maybe, or 401 WB but not EB.
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You're missing that the backtrack is direct access to a major employment area, as well as the path to more or less all of Mississauga. Travel southbound or Westbound coming off the GTA West is realistically mostly bypassing Toronto entirely.

In practice I suspect an awful lot of this thing's traffic will be commuters from relatively near the corridor, or north of it's connection to the 400, heading toward Mississauga.
 
Bureaucromancer said:
You're missing that the backtrack is direct access to a major employment area, as well as the path to more or less all of Mississauga. Travel southbound or Westbound coming off the GTA West is realistically mostly bypassing Toronto entirely.

In practice I suspect an awful lot of this thing's traffic will be commuters from relatively near the corridor, or north of it's connection to the 400, heading toward Mississauga.
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Wouldn't travelers heading to Mississauga use the 410 instead, and then access these employment areas via 401 WB rather than take the entire thing to the 401/407 and then go 401 EB? You'd also access the 403 via the 410 connection.

If this is tolled it would also be cheaper to get off at 410 rather than go all the way to 401.
 
Haljackey said:
Wouldn't travelers heading to Mississauga use the 410 instead, and then access these employment areas via 401 WB rather than take the entire thing to the 401/407 and then go 401 EB? You'd also access the 403 via the 410 connection.

If this is tolled it would also be cheaper to get off at 410 rather than go all the way to 401.
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Not if you live on the west side of Brampton or Georgetown.

Recall that Peel Region was planning a north-south expressway in the same location as GTA West from Mayfield south to the 401 for this reason, to service local demand in the area.

It may or may not be the highest volume connector but it will certainly be a higher volume one.

I mean GTA West north of that will only be a 2 lane expressway in each direction anyway, at least initially, so it's not like it will be super busy.
 
MTO will be adding horse and buggy lanes to appease the environmental concerns stemming from this highway.
10666652785_6aa952d7ce_w.jpg
 
Looks like the study team has addressed the "30 second savings" claim here:

www.gta-west.com

Time Savings - Highway 413

Know how Highway 413 would save the people who use it up to 30 minutes each way. Highway 413 will deliver a better infrastructure.
www.gta-west.com www.gta-west.com

You may have heard that figure being cited a lot recently. But is it true?

Well actually, the GTA West corridor would save the people who use it up to 30 minutes each way.

The 30-second figure is from a study done in 2017 that looked at the average time savings across the entire Greater Golden Horseshoe (GGH). It includes every trip on every road in every region – including places that are nowhere near the proposed GTA West Highway and Transit Corridor. So, a trip from Oshawa to Whitby for example, or from Niagara to St. Catharines would be included in that average.

Of course, on any given day once it’s built, most people in the GGH won’t use the GTA West highway. Just like most people today don’t use Highway 401, or Highway 427, or the DVP. Thousands do, but most of us don’t.

So, will the GTA West corridor make a significant difference for someone travelling from Hamilton to Niagara Falls? Of course not. But for the people who live, work or travel through the western part of the GTA it would have a huge impact. People who travel the full length of the highway – from Vaughan to Milton – would save up to 30 minutes each way. That’s a life-changing amount of time. It’s the difference between calling home to say goodnight and tucking your kids into bed yourself.
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TRONto said:
What? Why would that study be done and why would the results be stated? How is it relevant?
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it's useful to determine economic impact of a project across a greater region - the total amount of congestion hours removed by the project, as it can relieve congestion on a wider network level.

Someone travelling southbound on the 400 from Finch to the 401 would likely realize some time savings from the GTA west corridor for example as some vehicles would be redirected from further north onto GTA West. Likely nothing major, maybe 30 seconds to a minute, but some. Same with someone driving from, say, Oakville to Pickering, due to reduced congestion on the 401. Small benefits but still benefits.

You need to look at the entire GTA network to determine total time savings from a project, and that results in an "average savings". Of course the thing with averages is that many experience much greater time savings, especially for the trips that actually use the highway.
 
innsertnamehere said:
it's useful to determine economic impact of a project across a greater region - the total amount of congestion hours removed by the project, as it can relieve congestion on a wider network level.

Someone travelling southbound on the 400 from Finch to the 401 would likely realize some time savings from the GTA west corridor for example as some vehicles would be redirected from further north onto GTA West. Likely nothing major, maybe 30 seconds to a minute, but some. Same with someone driving from, say, Oakville to Pickering, due to reduced congestion on the 401. Small benefits but still benefits.

You need to look at the entire GTA network to determine total time savings from a project, and that results in an "average savings". Of course the thing with averages is that many experience much greater time savings, especially for the trips that actually use the highway.
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Hrmmn... Thanks for the explanation. Makes sense. This should not have been a highlight for the project though. The most relevant metric would be average time saved by people using the highway which I believe was no where to be found.
 
TRONto said:
Hrmmn... Thanks for the explanation. Makes sense. This should not have been a highlight for the project though. The most relevant metric would be average time saved by people using the highway which I believe was no where to be found.
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It never was a highlight, it was a metric used by opponents of the highway to try to claim that the highway didn’t achieve anything.
 
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