[Northern Light]

Excellent video explaining differences in approach to signal timings in North America and NL.

Excellent video; but I think the tail end only scratches the surface of the challenges to incorporating these excellent Dutch ideas in Toronto.

The way intersections are configured are different, lane widths and turning radii are different, traffic light placement is different, crosswalk placement is different, driver behavior is different.

That's not to suggest we shouldn't take many or all of these ideas and bring them here; but doing so would involve a great deal of change and no small sum of money.

***

With respect to efficiency of intersections here, I really want 'smarter' intersections with all-way actuation, and not just near approach sensors, but ones at distances that allow a light change by the time an approaching car arrives, if there is no conflict.

Likewise, real-time permission for pedestrians to cross, when there is no conflicting traffic.

We really need to work on 'smart' tech.

We also need fewer traffic lights (and stop signs) we engage in litter on these fronts using lights as a 'safety' measure where they are not warranted; and what is warranted is narrower roads, narrower lanes and yes, in many places, more through streets.

Grid Streets at 2km intervals create the (apparent) need for six and eight lane arterials, where four or even two lanes would suffice, on a 1km or 500M grid.

 

[reaperexpress]

Excellent video; but I think the tail end only scratches the surface of the challenges to incorporating these excellent Dutch ideas in Toronto.

The way intersections are configured are different, lane widths and turning radii are different, traffic light placement is different, crosswalk placement is different, driver behavior is different.

That's not to suggest we shouldn't take many or all of these ideas and bring them here; but doing so would involve a great deal of change and no small sum of money.

This video is not intended to be an all-encompassing explanation of Dutch traffic signals, it's merely an explanation of clearance time calculations.

You are absolutely correct that the various features are interconnected. Precise clearance time calculations are most efficient when phases can be fully independent from each other, which requires a traffic signal controller able to handle that, and fully-protected left turn signals. But we don't like implementing fully-protected left turn signals in Ontario, because they aren't efficient. But the reason the aren't efficient is that we don't use precise clearance time calculations and we don't have traffic signal controllers which can independently handle signal phases. It's a vicious cycle.

For this reason, I am making a series of 9 videos which each cover a particular feature of Dutch signals which is uncommon or non-existant in Ontario. Any one of those features would provide some benefit on its own, but combining them will provide more than the sum of the parts. One of the last videos in the series will be "fully-protected turn signals", in which I link together how the various features affect each other, referring to the detailed videos on each topic.

More precise clearance calculations would already provide major benefits at many existing intersections, as I demonstrated with the example of Bathurst & Centre in the video.

Many of the other features of Dutch signals are already being brought to Ontario. Ottawa has already built many Dutch-style protected intersections, and Toronto is about to build some as well. But their efficiency is severely hampered by the lack of two-stage crossings (topic of my first video in the series), the long clearance time for left turn phases (topic of the current video), and the lack of flexibility to provide additional green opportunities when possible (topic of my next video in the series).

With respect to efficiency of intersections here, I really want 'smarter' intersections with all-way actuation, and not just near approach sensors, but ones at distances that allow a light change by the time an approaching car arrives, if there is no conflict.

Likewise, real-time permission for pedestrians to cross, when there is no conflicting traffic.

We really need to work on 'smart' tech.

The funny part about the "smart" signals from the Netherlands is that they've already worked this way since the 90's when personal computers became affordable. It's far from cutting-edge technology. Mostly what the new advancements have done is to make them cheaper. For example nowadays instead of a bajillion metal detectors, you can monitor traffic conditions with a handful of cameras with AI image recognition, and GPS positions sent by connected vehicles (mostly buses nowadays, but also an increasing number of cars).

We also need fewer traffic lights (and stop signs) we engage in litter on these fronts using lights as a 'safety' measure where they are not warranted; and what is warranted is narrower roads, narrower lanes and yes, in many places, more through streets.

Grid Streets at 2km intervals create the (apparent) need for six and eight lane arterials, where four or even two lanes would suffice, on a 1km or 500M grid.

Jason from Not Just Bikes has been making videos covering the non-signal-related list of essential Dutch traffic engineering/planning methods, such as removing stop signs, disentangling car and bike networks, bicycle parking, continous sidewalk crossings, etc. so I don't feel the need to cover those myself.

Again, each one of those methods can be implemented on its own incrementally. It is not necessary to overhaul everything at once. Trying to do so would be overwhelming and daunting to the point we'd never start, just like how I was daunted by and eventually dissuaded from make one single video about all the features of Dutch traffic signals.

 

[Northern Light]

This video is not intended to be an all-encompassing explanation of Dutch traffic signals, it's merely an explanation of clearance time calculations.

You are absolutely correct that the various features are interconnected. Precise clearance time calculations are most efficient when phases can be fully independent from each other, which requires a traffic signal controller able to handle that, and fully-protected left turn signals. But we don't like implementing fully-protected left turn signals in Ontario, because they aren't efficient. But the reason the aren't efficient is that we don't use precise clearance time calculations and we don't have traffic signal controllers which can independently handle signal phases. It's a vicious cycle.

For this reason, I am making a series of 9 videos which each cover a particular feature of Dutch signals which is uncommon or non-existant in Ontario. Any one of those features would provide some benefit on its own, but combining them will provide more than the sum of the parts. One of the last videos in the series will be "fully-protected turn signals", in which I link together how the various features affect each other, referring to the detailed videos on each topic.

Many of the other features of Dutch signals are already being brought to Ontario. Ottawa has already built many Dutch-style protected intersections, and Toronto is about to build some. But their efficiency is severely hampered by the lack of two-stage crossings (topic of my first video in the series), the long clearance time for left turn phases (topic of this video), and the lack of flexibility to provide additional green opportunities when possible (topic of my next video in the series).


The funny part about the "smart" signals from the Netherlands is that they've already worked this way since the 90's when personal computers became affordable. It's far from cutting-edge technology. Mostly what the new advancements have done is to make them cheaper. For example nowadays instead of a bajillion metal detectors, you can monitor traffic conditions with a handful of cameras with AI image recognition, and GPS positions sent by connected vehicles (mostly buses nowadays, but also an increasing number of cars).



Jason from Not Just Bikes has been making videos covering the non-signal-related list of essential Dutch traffic engineering/planning methods, such as removing stop signs, disentangling car and bike networks, bicycle parking, continous sidewalk crossings, etc. so I don't feel the need to cover those myself.

Again, each one of those methods can be implemented on its own incrementally. It is not necessary to overhaul everything at once. Trying to do so would be overwhelming and daunting to the point we'd never start, just like how I was daunted by and eventually dissuaded from make one single video about all the features of Dutch traffic signals.

My post was not a critique on your excellent efforts; only a reminder to everyone about the interconnectedness of things, and the scale of required change.

 

[reaperexpress]

My post was not a critique on your excellent efforts; only a reminder to everyone about the interconnectedness of things, and the scale of required change.

No worries, I fully understood that. I simply wanted to also provide the context that although the scale of required change is large, that in itself is not a reason to be dissuaded or daunted. The mindset of transport planning practitioners has already changed in many cities including Toronto, and work is already underway to completely redesign Southern Ontario's transportation networks using a more Dutch mindset. So most of the changes are happening regardless, though they could probably happen faster if people like Not Just Bikes or @W. K. Lis realized this and supported the projects which are trying to accomplish the same things as them, rather than incorrectly claiming that everything they don't like is due to the city planners being pro-car.

What's mostly needed is some guidance and attention regarding the little design details which might otherwise get missed while implementing a totally new (to us) traffic system.

 

[crs1026]

No worries, I fully understood that. I simply wanted to also provide the context that although the scale of required change is large, that in itself is not a reason to be dissuaded or daunted. The mindset of transport planning practitioners has already changed in many cities including Toronto, and work is already underway to completely redesign Southern Ontario's transportation networks using a more Dutch mindset. So most of the changes are happening regardless, though they could probably happen faster if people like Not Just Bikes or @W. K. Lis realized this and supported the projects which are trying to accomplish the same things as them, rather than incorrectly claiming that everything they don't like is due to the city planners being pro-car.

What's mostly needed is some guidance and attention regarding the little design details which might otherwise get missed while implementing a totally new (to us) traffic system.

The “we should be like the Netherlands” faction spends a lot of time missing the point that for an allegedly anti-car culture, the Dutch are spending a huge amount of time and engineering brainpower to build a system that largely retains, rather than sheds, the automobile as a means of getting around.

They are not merely carving out more space and safety for pedestrians and cyclists……they are also trying to get it right for motorists as well. There is much we can learn…. bring on the videos!

- Paul

 

[afransen]

I think to call the Dutch anti car is to misunderstand the dynamic. They acknowledge that the car shouldn't be the default mode as that leads to unsafe and congested roads, and use nudges to encourage non-car trips. The effect that remaining car trips tend to be more effective.

 

[dullturtle06]

No worries, I fully understood that. I simply wanted to also provide the context that although the scale of required change is large, that in itself is not a reason to be dissuaded or daunted. The mindset of transport planning practitioners has already changed in many cities including Toronto, and work is already underway to completely redesign Southern Ontario's transportation networks using a more Dutch mindset. So most of the changes are happening regardless, though they could probably happen faster if people like Not Just Bikes or @W. K. Lis realized this and supported the projects which are trying to accomplish the same things as them, rather than incorrectly claiming that everything they don't like is due to the city planners being pro-car.

What's mostly needed is some guidance and attention regarding the little design details which might otherwise get missed while implementing a totally new (to us) traffic system.

I agree, like tonront's rebuilding gerrard street east in the Dutch style. But I feel like real change to happen at the Provincal level. Provincal standards need to be updated. Just how it was the design standards was for the country that pushed all the changes. Not city by city.

 

[reaperexpress]

The “we should be like the Netherlands” faction spends a lot of time missing the point that for an allegedly anti-car culture, the Dutch are spending a huge amount of time and engineering brainpower to build a system that largely retains, rather than sheds, the automobile as a means of getting around.

They are not merely carving out more space and safety for pedestrians and cyclists……they are also trying to get it right for motorists as well. There is much we can learn…. bring on the videos!

Exactly. Dutch infrastructure is not really anti-car, it's just pro-bike + transit. The Netherlands has the worlds densest freeway network, and they are constantly building highway bypasses around stuff. But the key is that road improvements are designed to improve all of the transport networks to a similar degree, to avoid shifting trips from bike/transit to car. So when they bypass a city street with a new highway, they will downgrade the traffic classification of old route, reallocating space for transit and cycling, and maybe even adding a motor traffic barrier at some point so it can only be used by local car traffic.

Unlike highway bypasses in North America, the bypasses in the Netherlands do actually reduce traffic in the built-up area and significantly improve the safety and efficiency of cycling, walking and transit.

For example, the town of Aalsmeer was bypassed a couple years ago by a new highway, so the old highway was downgraded from a 4 lane major arterial to a 2 lane minor arterial or local street (depending on the segment) with a separate 2-lane busway.

Old Highway 196 in 2016, passing through the centre of the town at grade

Same location in 2022: roadway on the left is a busway. It is now far easier and more pleasant to travel around this area by bike or by transit. It is now impossible for the bus to get stuck in traffic.

Through motor traffic gets to use the new Highway 201, which has a much higher speed limit and far fewer traffic signals than the old highway through the town.

If you looked at just the changes within the town it might appear anti-car, but when you consider the new highway bypass, you see that all modes have become safer and more efficient due to the changes.

 

[imerk]

Same location in 2022: roadway on the left is a busway. It is now far easier and more pleasant to travel around this area by bike or by transit. It is now impossible for the bus to get stuck in traffic.

It is sad to see all of those lost trees though, feels like they could have been more efficient with the available space.

 

[Jonny5]

What is this device mounted above the blue street sign?

 

[reaperexpress]

What is this device mounted above the blue street sign?

View attachment 427749

Looks to me like a radar detector. Detects cars and bicycles on the opposite side of the street.

 

[Jonny5]

Looks to me like a radar detector. Detects cars and bicycles on the opposite side of the street.

Ah. So would this replace the loop detectors in the road?

 

[Coolibop]

Usually I've seen those (larger gray box) on the side of the road pointing downward the vehicles perpendicular of the direction of travel near the stop line..

 

[reaperexpress]

Ah. So would this replace the loop detectors in the road?

If that's what it is then yes.

 

[Jonny5]

I couldn't find a better place for this: on Jarvis street, the new design has it with the middle lane double dashed yellow lane makings. Despite the overhead signals, it appears many are confusing the middle lane now as one of those bi-directional left turn only lanes. I've seen it several times in the past week.