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No one is saying that you're making it up. Traffic volumes decrease in the short-term from administrative policies, but they are not sustainable long-term policies. That's been consistent across the transportation planning industry, we cannot be designing for the short term given how long it takes for travel patterns to change and for infrastructure to change.
So we mandate wfh for 1 day a week, you're saying the 410 is going to have the same volume? If you call that a losing battle you're not going to convince people who purposefully bought big detached houses in a low density area to suddenly decide to take walk 20 mins to a bus, then switch vehicles 2 or 3 times even if the frequency was every 5 mins
 
So we mandate wfh for 1 day a week, you're saying the 410 is going to have the same volume? If you call that a losing battle you're not going to convince people who purposefully bought big detached houses in a low density area to suddenly decide to take walk 20 mins to a bus, then switch vehicles 2 or 3 times even if the frequency was every 5 mins
Yes. It will have the same volume in the long term. This is what we are telling you.
 
So we mandate wfh for 1 day a week, you're saying the 410 is going to have the same volume? If you call that a losing battle you're not going to convince people who purposefully bought big detached houses in a low density area to suddenly decide to take walk 20 mins to a bus, then switch vehicles 2 or 3 times even if the frequency was every 5 mins
And once again, you have brought the point back. To maximize benefits to society, we cannot keep building low-density, monolithic, auto-centric communities. Just because people will work from home, doesn't mean that they should do leisure, recreation, and other activities all from home.
 
I'm an essential worker and travel all around the GTA, and I noticed a big drop in traffic while people were working from home 3-4 days a week. I even filmed it since I knew people would say things like I'm making things up lmfao.
You really think mandating 1 day of wfh is suddenly going to convince people to sell their homes and move to the countryside? Or that people will magically get the time to drive around for fun at 9am? I get your point if it was a 100% thing but even then look at the land transfer taxes etc.
If people could drive on 100% free-flowing highways, they would 100% move to Kitchener-Waterloo, Guelph, Niagara, etc. for lower home prices.
 
If people could drive on 100% free-flowing highways, they would 100% move to Kitchener-Waterloo, Guelph, Niagara, etc. for lower home prices.
This is why my suggestion was for one or two days a week. Even if we make it 100% work from home what would they use the highway for?
 
Yes. It will have the same volume in the long term. This is what we are telling you.
And I fundamentally disagree! It’s like the tired induced demand argument. I’m not going to drive somewhere just because the road is empty! Tickets to Vancouver or five times cheaper than the last time I went! I’m still not going for no reason
 
And I fundamentally disagree! It’s like the tired induced demand argument. I’m not going to drive somewhere just because the road is empty! Tickets to Vancouver or five times cheaper than the last time I went! I’m still not going for no reason
You will drive further (more km) if you can do so in the same time. People who are only willing to live as far as Mississauga could consider moving to Burlington if highways were less congested. I don't know what to say if you think induced demand is 'tired'. There is ample evidence to support it. Every highway expansion quickly fills up and returns to a similar level of congestion within a matter of years.
 
You will drive further (more km) if you can do so in the same time. People who are only willing to live as far as Mississauga could consider moving to Burlington if highways were less congested. I don't know what to say if you think induced demand is 'tired'. There is ample evidence to support it. Every highway expansion quickly fills up and returns to a similar level of congestion within a matter of years.
But people only drive those distances because they have to go downtown (or wherever) for work!

I also find it so two-faced that if a transit line fills up People are happy, but if a road fills up suddenly, it’s a failure????
 
But people only drive those distances because they have to go downtown (or wherever) for work!

I also find it so two-faced that if a transit line fills up People are happy, but if a road fills up suddenly, it’s a failure????

Transit is far more efficient.

 
And I fundamentally disagree! It’s like the tired induced demand argument. I’m not going to drive somewhere just because the road is empty! Tickets to Vancouver or five times cheaper than the last time I went! I’m still not going for no reason
Unfortunately disagreeing with what we've observed consistently over the past century doesn't make it go away. The fact is that sometimes the world is more complicated than one's simplistic mental model of it, and you need to accept that things that just beause something seems like "common sense" doesn't make it true.
 
Unfortunately disagreeing with what we've observed consistently over the past century doesn't make it go away. The fact is that sometimes the world is more complicated than one's simplistic mental model of it, and you need to accept that things that just beause something seems like "common sense" doesn't make it true.
I'm going to agree to disagree, I think models and observations tend to be more wrong than right. Otherwise they wouldn't have said closing 3/4 the lanes on lakeshore would add 8 mins when it really added 4 hours.
 
I'm going to agree to disagree, I think models and observations tend to be more wrong than right. Otherwise they wouldn't have said closing 3/4 the lanes on lakeshore would add 8 mins when it really added 4 hours.
Usually agreeing to disagree applies to opinions, not academically researched facts. Keep in mind, these are also observations, not observations on the hourly or daily scale; but on the yearly and multi-year scale.
 

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