[Sweet Mister]

In rehab #RoFo is in a peculiar position because he's surrounded by people who know his family and situation. Surely they must be telling him, look, dude, your brother is a manipulative dick and your family are destroying you. And I'm sure he knows that in his heart. No wonder he's not answering the phone.

 

[Cooper]

Rob has a hard time staying focused for any length of time. Cut the Waist lasted maybe two weeks, Come to Jesus another couple of weeks, living clean and sober a few weeks. Oh gee, is there a pattern?

So I disagree that he is committed to working the program. He got talked into it, and he'll behave for a little bit, but that's it. Even his jaunt into town the other day, posing for selfies, shows that he can't stick with anything. Adulation is one of his addictions.

I think you and I are saying the same thing in different ways. My point is that he's committed to the program at this moment because he's in the rehab environment. All bets are off as to whether he sticks with it. Past experience indicates Rob doesn't play the long game.

 

[SFO]

In rehab #RoFo is in a peculiar position because he's surrounded by people who know his family and situation. Surely they must be telling him, look, dude, your brother is a manipulative dick and your family are destroying you. And I'm sure he knows that in his heart. No wonder he's not answering the phone.

If he's truly internalizing these ideas, and following them to their logical conclusions, then that blows up his bid to be re-elected. The whole thing has been built on behaviours he will know he has to stop if he's serious about getting sober. If rehab works, it's the end of Rob Ford, politician.

 

[Yaitsme]

Learned last night that Rinse is a guy and not Smith but can't reveal more

Seems risky even trying to find anything out while you don't know the stalker lol. Can you reveal if you flat out asked somebody?

 

[casita]

<snip> in addition to the mess that amalgamating the "megacity" became.

Also known as Mega-mess after 1998.

 

[ThoughtArcade]

If he's truly internalizing these ideas, and following them to their logical conclusions, then that blows up his bid to be re-elected. The whole thing has been built on behaviours he will know he has to stop if he's serious about getting sober. If rehab works, it's the end of Rob Ford, politician.

For what it's worth as a (former) addiction counselor, and a pretty hardcore one at that, I concur.

If Rob ended up at Caritas while I was there (or for that matter, one of the other 'old-time' counselors), the first thing would have been to strip every distraction. You can watch the 6 o'clock news at Caritas unless you're the cook. I would have made him the assistant cook (so, no responsibility but to follow instructions from the cook, who in turn follows instructions from the -older- resident in charge of food). No news. In fact, I might have advocated for no news for anyone, lest he retain some kind of star-appeal. I would have done anything I could to ensure that the fact that he was famous and the mayor was actually a burden on the other residents. As gently as possible though, because I wouldn't have wanted to feed an excuse to leave.

I wouldn't let him speak more than a few words in meeting for a while. Maybe a month or two. Just listen. Occasionally express a feeling at the Monday night "feelings meetings", but that's it.

After a while the nothingness would probably start to break him. He'd talk about missing his kids. And then the big hammers would come out.

The endgame would be to demonstrate that he has no other responsibilities in life that actually matter besides them. Damage has been done, but it's not too late -- what happens next is up to him. With the strong boundaries that addiction is incompatible with being a good father -- and given what has happened up to this point, holding elected office is also incompatible. For a "normal" person, it can be done with understanding and scheduling, but in his case, he's had that opportunity and it hasn't worked. Maybe in another 4-8 years (I'd choke while saying that, but if he were my client, I'd say it). But first thing's first. Him & his kids. He can still be a hero to them, if they come to understand that he dropped *everything* to be there for them.

But if his addictions & career continue to come before them...

ETA: the older residents would have taken care of a lot of this too. The "star-appeal" would wear off pretty quickly on them if it became a distraction and he didn't tow the program line. We used to have a resident who was quite wealthy at one point -- and I recall, when he was placed on barn duty, an older resident saying "Look, from the penthouse to the pigpen". I can just hear it now "Who do you think you are? You're mayor of the bathrooms now".

 

[themarc]

If he's truly internalizing these ideas, and following them to their logical conclusions, then that blows up his bid to be re-elected. The whole thing has been built on behaviours he will know he has to stop if he's serious about getting sober. If rehab works, it's the end of Rob Ford, politician.

Sad part is - everyone who meets him says he a really nice guy. He probably is - he's just been manipulated off the map so far he doesn't recognize himself anymore. I'll NEVER vote for this guy - but a part of me really feels sorry for this guy. He should just retire from politics and open the best damn sports bar Etobicoke has ever seen....

 

[Cooper]

In rehab #RoFo is in a peculiar position because he's surrounded by people who know his family and situation. Surely they must be telling him, look, dude, your brother is a manipulative dick and your family are destroying you. And I'm sure he knows that in his heart. No wonder he's not answering the phone.

This. With a shout out to SFO re a successful rehab being the end of Rob's political career.

 

[L23]

If he's truly internalizing these ideas, and following them to their logical conclusions, then that blows up his bid to be re-elected. The whole thing has been built on behaviours he will know he has to stop if he's serious about getting sober. If rehab works, it's the end of Rob Ford, politician.

And if rehab doesn't work (or rather if RoFo can't be arsed to do any actual rehab), he's certain to go on a raging bender again, which should be the end of RoFo, politician.

It's a win-win!

 

[PinkLucy]

Sad part is - everyone who meets him says he a really nice guy. He probably is - he's just been manipulated off the map so far he doesn't recognize himself anymore. I'll NEVER vote for this guy - but a part of me really feels sorry for this guy. He should just retire from politics and open the best damn sports bar Etobicoke has ever seen....

He's a really nice guy until he's high on something and going off on a rant -- but he's smart enough to keep that hidden, or at least he was until everyone got themselves a cell phone.

He's a really nice guy when it serves his purpose to be, but if he's got no use for you (you won't vote for him), he's just an ass.

He's a racist, mysogynistic, homophobic, narrow-minded, hypocritical, law-breaking bigot who can glad-hand when he needs to. He's NOT a nice guy.

ETA: And nice guys don't make disgusting, lewd comments about the mother of their children and then drag that woman to stand in front of the media.

 

[casita]

That's something that bugs me immensely whenever Ford is interviewed. He never makes eye contact. He often has his eyes closed. Maybe it's shyness (I can relate), but I think that's only part of the story. Many people who lie have a hard time making eye contact

I only met him once at Etobicoke Civic Centre when he was a councillor. I only knew him from his radio show. I only knew his radio show because my partner adored the guy because he promised us a pay raise and was going to rip up the councillor's free golf passes. I didn't much care one way or the other, because I would be long retired by the time of the election.

Seemed friendly enough when I met him, ( I was at work ) but like others have said, no eye contact.

How can you trust a man who won't look you in the eye?

Shame, shame on you
Shame, shame on you
Can you hold your head up high
Look your friends right in the eye
No you can't, shame on you

 

[SFO]

The endgame would be to demonstrate that he has no other responsibilities in life that actually matter besides them. Damage has been done, but it's not too late -- what happens next is up to him. With the strong boundaries that addiction is incompatible with being a good father -- and given what has happened up to this point, holding elected office is also incompatible. For a "normal" person, it can be done with understanding and scheduling, but in his case, he's had that opportunity and it hasn't worked. Maybe in another 4-8 years (I'd choke while saying that, but if he were my client, I'd say it). But first thing's first. Him & his kids. He can still be a hero to them, if they come to understand that he dropped *everything* to be there for them.

Thanks for this, a lot of great points. I wasn't even thinking as far as his family and his ultimate priorities. Just that in his professional life, Ford has almost entirely coasted on lies, evasions and refusal to take responsibility for his actions. I wouldn't think you could continue to work that way as a legit recovering addict. If Rob Ford can't cheat his way through his political career, it collapses pretty fast.

 

[ParkdalePetunia]

For what it's worth as a (former) addiction counselor, and a pretty hardcore one at that, I concur.

If Rob ended up at Caritas while I was there (or for that matter, one of the other 'old-time' counselors), the first thing would have been to strip every distraction. You can watch the 6 o'clock news at Caritas unless you're the cook. I would have made him the assistant cook (so, no responsibility but to follow instructions from the cook, who in turn follows instructions from the -older- resident in charge of food). No news. In fact, I might have advocated for no news for anyone, lest he retain some kind of star-appeal. I would have done anything I could to ensure that the fact that he was famous and the mayor was actually a burden on the other residents. As gently as possible though, because I wouldn't have wanted to feed an excuse to leave.

I wouldn't let him speak more than a few words in meeting for a while. Maybe a month or two. Just listen. Occasionally express a feeling at the Monday night "feelings meetings", but that's it.

After a while the nothingness would probably start to break him. He'd talk about missing his kids. And then the big hammers would come out.

The endgame would be to demonstrate that he has no other responsibilities in life that actually matter besides them. Damage has been done, but it's not too late -- what happens next is up to him. With the strong boundaries that addiction is incompatible with being a good father -- and given what has happened up to this point, holding elected office is also incompatible. For a "normal" person, it can be done with understanding and scheduling, but in his case, he's had that opportunity and it hasn't worked. Maybe in another 4-8 years (I'd choke while saying that, but if he were my client, I'd say it). But first thing's first. Him & his kids. He can still be a hero to them, if they come to understand that he dropped *everything* to be there for them.

But if his addictions & career continue to come before them...

ETA: the older residents would have taken care of a lot of this too. The "star-appeal" would wear off pretty quickly on them if it became a distraction and he didn't tow the program line. We used to have a resident who was quite wealthy at one point -- and I recall, when he was placed on barn duty, an older resident saying "Look, from the penthouse to the pigpen". I can just hear it now "Who do you think you are? You're mayor of the bathrooms now".

I wish for his family's sake that you were his councillor. This is exactly what needs to happen. If people in rehab are fawning all over him, and treating him like a celebrity, he's going to repeat the cycle (especially if the facility is making exceptions for him making him feel "special").

I think Rob is ignoring Doug's calls because he knows a) Doug's calling to yell at him, and tell him how badly he's screwed up the election (without caring about Rob's actual feelings or what actually happened) and then Doug will say that he's handling it and Rob doesn't appreciate how good he has it and how hard it is for Doug (without mentioning Rob's addiction as I'm positive Doug still believes it's not real or that people don't care and for Doug, at the very least, rehab is just a campaign tool) and b) Rob is meeting with councillors and is enjoying the freedom of not having his brother breathing down his neck tell him how horrible he is and I thinkt he councillors are encouraging him not to answer these phone calls. I think both are possible and likely.

 

[expat]

For what it's worth as a (former) addiction counselor, and a pretty hardcore one at that, I concur.
...

Thanks for this, TA - I'm really appreciating your input. I know we're all armchair-ing here a bit, but I'd always been curious to know what a psychologist's approach would be to debating Ford. In the 'main' televised debates we've seen so far in this campaign, nobody's had a terribly effective strategy for dealing with him. I'd read (somewhere?) that in the run up to the 2010 election, Kouvalis was ruthless about training him to control his temper. Apparently much of this consisted of mock debates or scrums, where Kouvalis would taunt Rob about his father.

Thoughts?

 

[ThoughtArcade]

Thanks for this, a lot of great points. I wasn't even thinking as far as his family and his ultimate priorities. Just that in his professional life, Ford has almost entirely coasted on lies, evasions and refusal to take responsibility for his actions. I wouldn't think you could continue to work that way as a legit recovering addict. If Rob Ford can't cheat his way through his political career, it collapses pretty fast.

Generally my own tactic has been to strip away everything that gave a sense of false identity. Job. Hobbies. Everything. Those will be important (and necessary) one day, but to confront behaviours, it has to be done with the view that none of that stuff matters. Only you, and what you do. That's the way you come face to face with who you really are. You took a piece of bread when you weren't supposed to? Oh, then you're the kind of person who will break rules and feels they are entitled to more than others, etc, etc...

By the same token, that's how *true* self esteem is built. You sacrificed your free time to talk to someone who was having a rough time? Then that's the kind of person you are. Can you do it consistently? Then you're the type of person who, absent of drugs, can be relied upon.

The other thing I would hammer into him on a daily basis is this:

The emptiness you are feeling and trying to fill is the gap between who you really are and the mask you where for everyone else.