[pattycakes]

No I understand exactly what more manpower would do. That's not in question.

What I'm asking is "How would an SOE bring more manpower?". Nobody has been able to explain this. In fact most credible sources say that it would NOT.

The army would respond, the same as when Mel called them for help. The army could have gone door to door, providing information, supplies or rides to warming centres. The manpower could be used for tree removal, even directing traffic at intersections.

 

[r937]

One of Ford's very few remaining powers is the ability to declare an emergency, and once again he has proven himself incapable of exercising it.

at the risk of sounding like a ford supporter, i'll venture that he did exercise that power, by not declaring

turns out he was right, because apparently declaring would not have made a difference

rob meant it as a nyah-nyah to norm kelly, but that's just my imagination

 

[mrtinfoilsocket]

The army would respond, the same as when Mel called them for help. The army could have gone door to door, providing information, supplies or rides to warming centres. The manpower could be used for tree removal, even directing traffic at intersections.

From the Mark Towhey blog post:
http://www.towhey.com/?p=242

If there was widespread looting or a break down in law and order, the City could ask the province for additional policing help. The province could, in turn, ask the Minister of National Defence to provide Canadian Forces to help police the city. That deployment does not require a declararion of emergency, but it does require a written request from the Attorney General of Ontario. (National Defence Act – R.S.C., 1985, c. N-5 (Section 278)

There is, admittedly, a real value to having a uniformed presence in hard-hit communities and the military has the resources to flood an area with uniformed troops. This is mostly a psychological benefit – but having troops in your neighborhood who can communicate with authorities could help facilitate emergency response. Using highly trained soldiers for this, however, is the most expensive option. Using Toronto Police, city staff or even Red Cross volunteers would be much, much cheaper and faster.

 

[picard102]

The army would respond, the same as when Mel called them for help. The army could have gone door to door, providing information, supplies or rides to warming centres. The manpower could be used for tree removal, even directing traffic at intersections.

False. First of all, a SoE would not suddenly produce military forces in the city. The city would still need to ask for their assistance, which they could do without calling for an emergency.
Secondly, having the army go door to door to give out pamphlets is hardly worth the effort, nor are we in short supply of police to direct traffic. And last I checked the armed forces are not tranned in civilian power infrastructure repairs, or abourculturism.

It's amazing that somehow we've become a society of children, waiting on the government to save us from our own ineptitude.

 

[kaboi]

What I'm asking is "How would an SOE bring more manpower?". Nobody has been able to explain this. In fact most credible sources say that it would NOT.

An immediate declaration on Sunday morning might have expedited the response of outside hydro crews. Someone on this board said they knew hydro workers out of town who were expecting a call that never came - could it be their bosses didn't think Toronto needed the extra help?? Outside hydro workers didn't start until Tuesday, surely that could have happened sooner if the world knew this was a SOE.

It might also have expedited a stronger response - for example, door-to-door checks on vulnerable people and evacuations where necessary. That started later, after the -10 temperatures on Xmas eve.

Even if I'm wrong about that, I don't know that you could look at this case as typical of emergency situations. I get the feeling that the premier's response has been about working around Rob Ford. It seems to me that both Norm Kelly and the premier felt it was an emergency from the get go and agreed to forego a declaration, thereby backdooring the usual emergency protocol route. Ironically, this has made a SOE seem unnecessary, but I'm not sure that's really true. Expedient in this case, but I worry that this may muddy the waters in the future. The ability to declare a SOE exists for a reason.

 

[mrtinfoilsocket]

The ability to declare a SOE exists for a reason.

My understanding is that a declaration of an SOE exists almost entirely as a mechanism to consolidate council's power in the hands of one person - usually the mayor but the deputy mayor in our case. It allows the "Mayor" to pass laws and enact legislation without going through the normal democratic channels which could be essential in a crisis. So one could for example if they needed to "Shut down the TTC" or force an evacuation within minutes instead of the time it would normally take to hold a city council vote. No wasting time on debates or votes or formalities.

 

[tiffer24]

It's amazing that somehow we've become a society of children, waiting on the government to save us from our own ineptitude.

Yes, those 90 year old war vets huddled in their cold apartments have been a drain on city coffers for years.

 

[picard102]

An immediate declaration on Sunday morning might have expedited the response of outside hydro crews. Someone on this board said they knew hydro workers out of town who were expecting a call that never came - could it be their bosses didn't think Toronto needed the extra help?? Outside hydro workers didn't start until Tuesday, surely that could have happened sooner if the world knew this was a SOE.

Outside workers were dispatched on Sunday from Ottawa, and on Monday the news was reporting that additional help was on the way.

 

[mrtinfoilsocket]

An immediate declaration on Sunday morning might have expedited the response of outside hydro crews. Someone on this board said they knew hydro workers out of town who were expecting a call that never came - could it be their bosses didn't think Toronto needed the extra help?? Outside hydro workers didn't start until Tuesday, surely that could have happened sooner if the world knew this was a SOE.

Towey seems to imply this was already happening even without an SOE:

What’s really required in Toronto are more forestry and electrical line crews. All those in the city are engaged. Toronto Hydro has mutual aid agreements with utilities across North America that don’t require an emergency declaration to access additional help.

But, crews in neighboring areas were already fully engaged at home dealing with their own emergencies. However, as they are finished in their areas, they are coming to Toronto. The province has some forestry crews that it moved into Toronto even before the storm and they are already engaged. Bringing in crews from further afield is already happening, but it takes about 72 hours from time of request. They have started arriving over the last 36 hours.

 

[dforthandbview]

The Big 6 Newsmaker of the Year: Rob Ford

With 43% of your votes, Toronto Mayor Rob Ford is the Day 6 Newsmaker of 2013. Ford has only agreed to a handful of interviews since the crack video story broke in May, and often declines to answer questions. We've assembled a list of questions that some of the key reporters on the story and others would like Mayor Ford to answer. Mayor Ford was sent these questions on December 17, along with an invitation to answer them in an interview or in writing. Mayor Ford did not respond to our request. Some questions below refer to information from police documents, including the Project Brazen and Project Traveller "Information To Obtain" docs. Information from these documents has not been proven in a court of law.

DonPeat, The Toronto Sun:
1. Do you not feel shame about what you have done?
2. What happened the night and early morning of April 20 at 15 Windsor?
3. What makes you think Toronto residents will ever trust you again enough to re-elect you in 2014?
4. Why won't you speak to Toronto Police investigators?
5. What does getting high on crack cocaine feel like?

Christie Blatchford, The National Post:
6. How could you have said, in front of all those TV cameras, what you did about your wife? Do you have any idea how coarse you sounded? And why did you then and do you always, offer a quick "I apologize" and expect to be immediately forgiven?
7. Do you have any friends who don't have criminal records and, without naming them, who are they in a general way?
8. Why do you think losing weight is your biggest challenge given your acknowledged binge drinking and occasional drug use?

Jonathan Goldstein, Wiretap, CBC Radio:
9. When was the moment you realized this whole thing might have gotten away from you?

Robyn Doolittle, The Toronto Star:
10. At the end of the so-called crack video, you look directly at the person filming and say: "That better not be on." What happened next?
11. Wiretaps suggest you offered the dealer $5000 and a car in exchange for the footage and that he intended on asking you for between $100,000-$150,000. Were you being extorted?
(Note: Rob Ford called these an allegations an "outright lie" in a December 5 appearance on the Washington, DC radio program The Sports Junkies.)
12. If you had never gone into politics, what do you think your life would look like right now?

Jackson Proskow, Municipal Affairs Reporter, Global News:
13. What was in those packages you exchanged with Sandro Lisi?
14. How did you come to know the people who provided you with crack cocaine?
15. Have you ever drank or used drugs at work?

Greg McArthur, The Globe and Mail:
16. Between May 16 and 18, less than 48 hours after the Star and Gawker published stories about you smoking crack cocaine, 13 phone calls were made to Sandro Lisi from phones belonging to you. What did you discuss with him? Why did you need to speak with him so many times?
17. Over that same period Mr. Lisi also made a number of phone calls to two alleged drug dealers who had a copy of the video. Toronto police say that over those two days, Mr. Lisi told them they would harmed if they didn't hand over the video. What did Mr. Lisi tell you about his conversations with the accused drug dealers?
18. During those two days, Mr. Lisi also made five phone calls to the home of Fabio Basso, your longtime friend who lives in the alleged "crackhouse" where the video was made. And on May 21st, three days after he called Mr. Basso, someone burst into that home and assaulted Mr. Basso and his family members. Since then, have you spoken to Mr. Basso? If so, what did he say about the attack? If not, why not.

Jayme Poisson, The Toronto Star:
19. Mayor Ford, after the mass shooting on Danzig St. in 2012, you said that you had declared "war" on gangs in this city. On Project Traveller wiretaps, alleged members of the Dixon City Bloods street gang describe several situations involving you and drugs. The men who tried to sell the now notorious "crack video" are also alleged members of this gang, and are now facing gun and drug trafficking charges. Can you give us a complete and honest account of your association and dealings with these alleged Dixon City Blood gang members?
20. Did you, or anyone associated with you, offer $5,000 and a car or any other reward in exchange for videos or photos documenting your drug use?

Kevin Donovan, Toronto Star:
21. Mayor Ford, from the moment I saw the video of you smoking crack cocaine I have had a nagging question. Who is the man, a friend it seems, who is loudly goading you off camera into making rude, racially charged and homophobic statements? What is the name of that person?
22. Mayor Ford, when the Toronto Star exposed your involvement with Sandro Lisi, who had tried to retrieve the video and who had told people he was your drug dealer, you pointedly told the world you do not "throw my friends under the bus." Was this a message to Mr. Lisi in the hope that he would not turn police informant on you?
23. Mayor, you have described yourself as a family man and the best father there is. Do you think it was wise to have Sandro Lisi, a man convicted of threatening to kill a young woman, attend a child's soccer game? Would you please tell us what Mr. Lisi gave you that day and what you gave him in return.
24. Mayor Ford, many of the people you surround yourself with have criminal records, some for drugs, some for violence. Do you intentionally seek these people out and if so, for what reason?

George Stroumbolopoulos, George Stroumbolopoulos Tonight:
25. Why is your brother always there in interviews?
26. If you were in City Council and a Mayor acted like you did, would you call for their resignation? (Note: Ford responded to City Council's vote to limit his powers on Nov. 15.)

Natalie Alcoba, The National Post:
27. Mayor Ford, your former press secretary, George Christopoulos, told police that you said you knew Anthony Smith, the man pictured with you in the notorious photo taken outside 15 Windsor Road. Smith was a suspected member of the Dixon City Bloods who was gunned down outside a down-town nightclub in March. You've commented on the photo before - but I want to ask you specifically, did you know Anthony Smith? Do you know anything about why Anthony Smith was killed?
28. Mayor Ford, since you were elected, how often did you go to the house on Windsor Road that police believe to be a crack house? What did you do there?

Mary Walsh, This Hour Has 22 Minutes
29. Why do you always lie first and tell the truth later, why not simplify your life and tell the truth first?
http://www.cbc.ca/day6/big-6/2013/12/27/the-big-6-newsmaker-of-the-year-rob-ford/

 

[DD13]

It's amazing that somehow we've become a society of children, waiting on the government to save us from our own ineptitude.

I agree. I say we abolish the fire department, also. I mean, if people can't figure out that water extinguishes fire I say let them burn.

 

[sno man]

Now here are some questions I'd love to hear answered...
CBC Radio's Day 6 asked several reported to list some questions they would like to ask Rob Ford...

Nevermind, D beat me to it...

 

[picard102]

I agree. I say we abolish the fire department, also. I mean, if people can't figure out that water extinguishes fire I say let them burn.

Sure, a fire is the same thing as being without power. There is no reason, living in a country defined by it's winters, that one should be able to live in a structure protected from the elements for more than an hour in the cold.

 

[DeathSilver]

Now here are some questions I'd love to hear answered...
CBC Radio's Day 6 asked several reported to list some questions they would like to ask Rob Ford...

Nevermind, D beat me to it...

Great questions. It is amazing that Ford nation does not care about getting answers to any of these critical questions the mayor has never directly answered.

 

[kaboi]

Outside workers were dispatched on Sunday from Ottawa, and on Monday the news was reporting that additional help was on the way.

Not a big deal - I see your point - but Ottawa workers dispatched on Sunday went to Picton, not Toronto.