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Lenser said:
... but I'd say the whole point is to have a level playing field and that's certainly not what's going on now. The Beer Store is an anachronism that's smugly ripping off Ontarians while the pols look the other way.
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Well said. It does make you wonder just what the heck our civil servants/pols think they're there for, and in who's interests? I've said it before, it is a conflict of interest pure and simple having our government regulate something while profiteering from it at the same time, no matter what the justification... and if you're prepared to ju$tify away then shut he hell up about collusion, fairness or a raw deal or whatever, there's next to no credibility to be claimed by anybody at that point.
 
Large grocers will get wine, beer under Liberals’ plan



Coming soon to a supermarket near you: Beer and wine.

Three decades after politicians first promised beer and wine in corner stores, the Liberal government now plans to go further — by liberalizing sales in hundreds of large supermarkets across the province.

In a move that will shake up the Beer Store, the government wants to significantly loosen the quasi-monopoly held by the foreign-owned chain ever since prohibition ended nine decades ago.

Potentially hundreds of Ontario’s larger supermarkets — from among the roughly 1,500 located across the province — would initially be permitted to sell craft beer and major national brands on their premises, providing stiff competition to the Beer Store’s 448 existing outlets, sources say.

As many as 200 large grocers could also be licensed to carry Ontario and imported wines in their stores for the first time in the province’s highly regulated history. But wine sales would be more complex due to trade laws that restrict the number of licences the government can issue.

Grocery executives have been called in by a government-appointed panel to discuss “liberalizing the distribution of beer and wine in this province,” according to David Wilkes, a vice-present at the Retail Council of Canada. The discussions made it clear the government wants to “enhance choice and enhance convenience.”

Read More: http://www.thestar.com/news/queensp...l-get-wine-beer-under-liberals-plan-cohn.html
 
Basically, I want the Quebec system and this nudges us there. A continued strong and decent LCBO (like the SAQ), beer/wine in grocery stores and potentially licensed corner "dep" stores. The Beer Store can continue to exist, if it wishes, but not in any way should it be protected.

On another note, Toronto should use the powers of the City of Toronto Act and extend last-call until 04:00 pronto.
 
Anybody read anything about what constitutes a grocery store in these plans? Is, say, Wal-Mart a grocery store? Costco? Both the world's largest retailer and the worlds largest wholesaler dedicate an ever increasing amount of their floor space to items traditionally considered groceries.
 
If I wanted to be pessimistic I'd say that IF this actually happens, then watch them only allow 6packs (or maaaaybe 12 packs) but keep the 2-4s monopolized by their buddies at The Beer Store.

OR

If I wanted to be REALLY pessimistic, this could be nothing more than a rumour floated out there to scare The Beer Store owners to pay that franchise fee or risk beer being allowed in grocery stores.

I would really like to be proven wrong and have the ability to go over to the local Loblaws for my 2-4 rather than trek to a Beer Store, though! (I don't own a car.)
 
Empties, the acceptance and disposal of, may be a deal breaker for some potential locations or may give birth to the "Empties Store" as a stand alone business. We shall see, they can not be ignored.
 
A small step forward.

The problem with allowing beer sales in select large supermarkets is that the shelf space is "sold" to the large suppliers who deal for the best shelf space. I have been to large grocery stores in the US with good selection of both megabrew beers and local and national craft brands, but in many places, if they don't just have the Bud/Coors/Miller brews (and their related brands, such as Rolling Rock, Stella, Labatt in WNY, etc), you'll be lucky if they had Sam Adams, Sierra Nevada (a good beer, but one of the largest US craft brews available nation-wide), maybe Yungling.

Even the Deps and Metro in Quebec mostly only carry Blue/50, Canadian/Export, Sleeman/Unibroue, and the crappy Boreale brands.

So Loblaws will likely have the same selection as the Beer Store pushes (the big three megabrews) plus maybe Moosehead (and its related brands), perhaps Steamwhistle, Mill Street, Amsterdam on the bottom of the beer shelves. Wines will be the same Constellation blended wines as you find in the Wine Rack.

I figure that I'll still buy most of my beer and wine at the LCBO.
 
Heard someone talking (just some Bay Street guy walking along) about how this (in his opinion) would be handled like the way the feds handle the spectrum auctions....ie an auction of the licenses to generate a big cash inflow for the government.

I got an involuntary smile when I thought "if all the licenses were snapped up by WalMart and Costco, would that 'controlled by big foreign owned players' theme ever go away"....not sure how many of Walmarts 394 stores are in Ontario so it may not even be possible for these talked about 200 licenses being totally in the big foreigners hands but it would be an interesting turn if they were.

The other consideration I have been wondering about is what this does to job availability in the 200 stores (if that is the number) to 16 and 17 year olds. If I owned one of the licensed stores I would want to ensure all my employees were 18+ so I was not restricted in duty assignments.

I am sure this is not a rushed out plan and all this stuff has been considered.
 
The mom-n-pop convenience stores should be included. Maybe if they contributed something to ANY of the political parties?

Would the NDP try to get support from any such non-union store, where the family and relatives are the owners and the employees?
 
I just realized the title of this thread: " The Beer Store: Political Reasons to Keep/Kill It".

I think the biggest political reason is if a government is so mired in scandal it needs a big distraction.
 
W. K. Lis said:
The mom-n-pop convenience stores should be included. Maybe if they contributed something to ANY of the political parties?

Would the NDP try to get support from any such non-union store, where the family and relatives are the owners and the employees?
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The "mom-n-pop" convenience stores have a politically active, large province-wide association.
They have been at the forefront of this issue for some time. I am guessing they donated to the wrong party, PC.

http://ontariocstores.ca/
http://freeourbeer.ca/home/

They are also big on decreasing regulation of cigarettes and tobacco products.
 
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ShonTron said:
A small step forward.

The problem with allowing beer sales in select large supermarkets is that the shelf space is "sold" to the large suppliers who deal for the best shelf space. I have been to large grocery stores in the US with good selection of both megabrew beers and local and national craft brands, but in many places, if they don't just have the Bud/Coors/Miller brews (and their related brands, such as Rolling Rock, Stella, Labatt in WNY, etc), you'll be lucky if they had Sam Adams, Sierra Nevada (a good beer, but one of the largest US craft brews available nation-wide), maybe Yungling.
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Yeah i'd expect that to be so. The supermarkets have limited space and are going to carry the big sellers. It's normal. They need to allow boutique stores to carry craft beers and Ontario wineries.


TOareaFan said:
Heard someone talking (just some Bay Street guy walking along) about how this (in his opinion) would be handled like the way the feds handle the spectrum auctions....ie an auction of the licenses to generate a big cash inflow for the government.

I got an involuntary smile when I thought "if all the licenses were snapped up by WalMart and Costco, would that 'controlled by big foreign owned players' theme ever go away"....
Click to expand...

True, i thought this too.

... and by selecting 'a limited number of grocery stores' are we not just creating more/new special deals/cartels? Good grief, can this province not do anything right? Even our reform is corrupt.

This reform just doesn't do the job, and i hope people aren't so gullible or needy that they'll accept this bad deal.


W. K. Lis said:
The mom-n-pop convenience stores should be included.
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Yep, they should just open it up. Stop the special deals. Corner stores, specialty boutiques, box stores... I think we can handle it.
 
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