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Bureaucromancer said:
Let me put another perspective out there on this...

What's the hurry? Another year or three on the fleet has what impact? The media stuff on this keeps trying to connect overcrowding to the new fleet delays, but capacity issues stemming from the passenger count reductions could just as easily be addressed with operational solutions along the lines of better utilizing Oniagara and William Inglis, along with, you know, doing something like picking up an old Halifax vessel as a stopgap. I've got absolutely no issue with this project getting extended to avoid buying diesels right at the end of the era when they would make sense.
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Does Halifax have old ferries we could use?
 
innsertnamehere said:
Not at this point I don’t think but they sold a bunch a few years ago. The City could have picked a few up.
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Owner of Centreville bought one of them back in 2017 (article link), and its visible in streetview below. It's even been tagged on Google Maps.
1690908406319.png
 
I also think its extremely shortsighted for the city not to plan a way to get into the water taxi business. I feel like its worth looking into whether public water taxi services are feasible. There’s no reason people should be paying 13 bucks (or 9 for that matter) to be on the water for five minutes tops.
 
FWIW I was in Ottawa this week and noted this craft going up and down the Canal. A bit small for the Islands, but I guess it shows that electric boats are coming. It was a lot quieter than the various pleasure craft that were out and about.

All the same , I would rather see the City procure conventional craft that can be built and placed in service sooner. I sure hope this does not turn into a procurement with specs that are aspirational but not proven or practical.

- Paul

IMG_6311.jpeg
 
ProjectEnd said:
Any idea why this one doesn't run? I've only seen it moored up in stasis for the last couple of years, IIRC.
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Im just guessing but he bought it cheap and probably did not realize the cost to maintain and service/run a vessel like this.

Pandemic probably didn't help as well.
 
jcam said:
Owner of Centreville bought one of them back in 2017 (article link), and its visible in streetview below. It's even been tagged on Google Maps.
View attachment 496730
Click to expand...

ProjectEnd said:
Any idea why this one doesn't run? I've only seen it moored up in stasis for the last couple of years, IIRC.
Click to expand...

robmausser said:
Im just guessing but he bought it cheap and probably did not realize the cost to maintain and service/run a vessel like this.

Pandemic probably didn't help as well.
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They bought it so they can get to the island when the city faries are out of service due to strilkes to do mantnce on the rides at centerville.
 
Does any one know what is happening with the ferry replacement tender? I recall that the City is in talks with shipyards but that’s it. The fact that this falls under Parks has me thinking they will fumble the project.
 
Last edited:
This seems to be most recent Council action: https://secure.toronto.ca/council/agenda-item.do?item=2022.GL28.1

Committee Decision​

The General Government and Licensing Committee:

1. In accordance with Section 71- 11.1C of the City of Toronto Municipal Code Chapter 71 (Financial Control) authorized the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation to enter into the necessary amending agreement on terms and conditions satisfactory to the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation and in a form satisfactory to the City Solicitor, to increase the value and term of Purchase Order Number 6044203 with Concept Naval Experts Maritimes Inc. for the provision of additional design and construction support services for the delivery of a new Toronto ferry or ferries, by an additional amount of $2,689,565 net of applicable taxes and charges ($2,736,901 net of Harmonized Sales Tax recoveries), increasing the current Purchase Order Value from $1,851,156 net of applicable taxes and charges ($1,883,736 net of Harmonized Sales Tax recoveries) to $4,540,721 net of all applicable taxes and charges ($4,620,638 net of Harmonized Sales Tax recoveries), and extending the term to December 31, 2025.

Origin​

(December 8, 2021) Report from the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation and the Chief Procurement Officer, Purchasing and Materials Management

Summary​

The purpose of this report is to seek authority to amend Purchase Order Number 6044203 issued to Concept Naval Experts Maritimes Incorporated for the provision of Total Design and Construction Support Services for the Construction of a New City of Toronto Marine Services Passenger and Vehicle Vessel by an additional amount of $2,689,565 net of applicable taxes and charges ($2,736,901 net of Harmonized Sales Tax recoveries), resulting in a total revised purchase order value of $4,540,721 net of all applicable taxes and charges ($4,620,638 net of Harmonized Sales Tax recoveries), and to extend the term to December 31, 2025.

The requested amount is required to provide additional design and construction support services for the delivery of a new Toronto ferry or ferries, as part of the City's ferry replacement project. These additional design and construction support services are required to advance an electric version of the design, as well as shore-side infrastructure required to support full electrification of the vessels.

Background Information​

(December 8, 2021) Report from the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation and the Chief Procurement Officer, Purchasing and Materials Management on Amendment to Purchase Order Number 6044203 with Concept Naval Experts Maritimes Incorporated for the Provision of Design and Construction Support Services for the Delivery of Two Electric Ferries and Associated Shore-side Infrastructure
https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2022/gl/bgrd/backgroundfile-174404.pdf

This changed the contract from buying hybrid diesel/electric ferries to 100% electric ones.

The original scope of work covered by Purchase Order No. 6044203 only included design and construction support services costs for a hybrid diesel-electric powered passenger/vehicle vessel and a hybrid diesel-electric passenger vessel design. Additional design work is required to advance electrification and support shore-side infrastructure, and to deliver a modern environmentally friendly ferry replacement to serve the long term needs of a growing Toronto. The additional design services and change in replacement strategy will deliver improved environmental results, long-term value for money to the City and improved customer outcomes. To allow for fully electric vessels, the shore-side infrastructure portion is critical as it ensures that the necessary electrical supports are in place to allow for seamless charging of the new vessels.
 
DSC said:
This seems to be most recent Council action: https://secure.toronto.ca/council/agenda-item.do?item=2022.GL28.1

Committee Decision​

The General Government and Licensing Committee:

1. In accordance with Section 71- 11.1C of the City of Toronto Municipal Code Chapter 71 (Financial Control) authorized the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation to enter into the necessary amending agreement on terms and conditions satisfactory to the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation and in a form satisfactory to the City Solicitor, to increase the value and term of Purchase Order Number 6044203 with Concept Naval Experts Maritimes Inc. for the provision of additional design and construction support services for the delivery of a new Toronto ferry or ferries, by an additional amount of $2,689,565 net of applicable taxes and charges ($2,736,901 net of Harmonized Sales Tax recoveries), increasing the current Purchase Order Value from $1,851,156 net of applicable taxes and charges ($1,883,736 net of Harmonized Sales Tax recoveries) to $4,540,721 net of all applicable taxes and charges ($4,620,638 net of Harmonized Sales Tax recoveries), and extending the term to December 31, 2025.

Origin​

(December 8, 2021) Report from the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation and the Chief Procurement Officer, Purchasing and Materials Management

Summary​

The purpose of this report is to seek authority to amend Purchase Order Number 6044203 issued to Concept Naval Experts Maritimes Incorporated for the provision of Total Design and Construction Support Services for the Construction of a New City of Toronto Marine Services Passenger and Vehicle Vessel by an additional amount of $2,689,565 net of applicable taxes and charges ($2,736,901 net of Harmonized Sales Tax recoveries), resulting in a total revised purchase order value of $4,540,721 net of all applicable taxes and charges ($4,620,638 net of Harmonized Sales Tax recoveries), and to extend the term to December 31, 2025.

The requested amount is required to provide additional design and construction support services for the delivery of a new Toronto ferry or ferries, as part of the City's ferry replacement project. These additional design and construction support services are required to advance an electric version of the design, as well as shore-side infrastructure required to support full electrification of the vessels.

Background Information​

(December 8, 2021) Report from the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation and the Chief Procurement Officer, Purchasing and Materials Management on Amendment to Purchase Order Number 6044203 with Concept Naval Experts Maritimes Incorporated for the Provision of Design and Construction Support Services for the Delivery of Two Electric Ferries and Associated Shore-side Infrastructure
https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2022/gl/bgrd/backgroundfile-174404.pdf

This changed the contract from buying hybrid diesel/electric ferries to 100% electric ones.

The original scope of work covered by Purchase Order No. 6044203 only included design and construction support services costs for a hybrid diesel-electric powered passenger/vehicle vessel and a hybrid diesel-electric passenger vessel design. Additional design work is required to advance electrification and support shore-side infrastructure, and to deliver a modern environmentally friendly ferry replacement to serve the long term needs of a growing Toronto. The additional design services and change in replacement strategy will deliver improved environmental results, long-term value for money to the City and improved customer outcomes. To allow for fully electric vessels, the shore-side infrastructure portion is critical as it ensures that the necessary electrical supports are in place to allow for seamless charging of the new vessels.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think this was a terrible decision. I'm all for electric in principle, but they moved to change design/tender mid-stream and it set back the purchase/delivery dates and inflated the costs. Its not, to my mind, the way we should manage the public purse.
 
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