[Saint2844]

..as much as possible, to make a car less necessary, to reverse urban sprawl, to emphasize a working model, for the 21st century city...
Why can't we let Toronto grow into the city of the future....from a distance, she seems to be taking a leading role in reshaping the classic North American urban model , taking cues from both Asian city's , European and New York, (her biggest influence).
Toronto, is a great canvas , in an even greater country, a city full of new beginnings and economic potential. Canada's credit, in all corners of the world, is unrivaled, our track record of honesty, and reliability, hasn't gone unnoticed. Thus she seems a safe harbor for investing in these troubled times! What that says about Canada, is so amazing, and should make you all so PROUD!!!
Cityplace is beautiful from the lake, and the street fabric ALWAYS takes time! It is an experiment with the fabric of a city, a chance to see, what can be done......How can so many not see this great vision?? In time, retail and street life , will follow the 1 000's who will be living there. What a great place to open a bar! With 8 000 people living above you!! The way it ties the lake to the core, Bremner, will soon be a very active place, two sports stadia, and how many residents?? The comparisons to St Jamestown, are comical, I challenge any one who makes these claims to look at a unit in each!!
Seriously, will we see Bremner as a failure in 40 years? Will it shift into low income housing? Not likely, Not with that access, lake view and the citys demand for upkeep. Will they likely be middle class housing??? Yes , Exactly?? I say bravo 45th floor housing for a young family, that can walk to the lake , catch a Jays game.
Last, and of much importance, the more people you stuff into the urban core, the greater the local tax base, the safer the streets, the better the schools, the newer the bridges, and parks, and side walks, and trees, and fountains, and ........you could go on, and also the demand would increase for more public transit, and the funding can be more local than ever, and be a a complete cross section, of wealthy, and middle class, living together...Dammm I miss CANADA.

very well put. in the end $$$$$ will rule, especially when it comes to taxes. One thing that we are finally starting to see is more street development, with projects like AURA, that will have shopping and dining and plenty of space for residents. Another great thing is that Ann Scott Park will be redone into a newer more vibrant location.

 

[jetsbackincanada]

Jets Back,

Your false superiority to a nation of 300,000,000+ smacks of profound ignorance and gives off an of inverse stupidity in it's own right. I suppose I could simply ignore your unending non sequiturs but you've come to dominate this thread with your misplaced patriotism.

What does the population have to do with anything?!
I live here, and have for 20 years, yet I can count on one hand, the number of Americans I have met that can name our capital!? Why is my patriotism misplaced?? You dont give any reason, or explanation, and that is "profound ignorance!!" .....Just sputtering out your mouth, to hear your self blather.
Good for you , I simply think that the stability in Canada is warranted, and linked to her positive endeavors....and thats misplaced patriotism????? Go sit on a flag.
I meet foreigners every day here, and they are surprised that I know, where Tanzania, or Bhutan is?? I say well I am a Canadian, and they are like "Oh, well that explains it, no one here even knows my country"........Dumb, dumb, dumb, I see them every day.....I don't recall saying Canada is perfect, sorry that my love for my homeland disturbs you.....actually I'm not sorry!? Too bad for you, cause I ain't going away., .....and I will never take a back seat to any American , just because they're American or because they have 300 000 000 + people?! You make no sense.
Shame on you , and you like these........?
When you disagree with someone, your supposed to make a point.
You come live here for one year, and tell me you aren't tired of a majority, that backs politicians cause they " won't let fags marry", or " he's a baby killer", they are separate from the global community, and proud of it!! This place is poisoned, and the educated people here agree......geeesh, guess your ignorance is profound...and a couple more...for ya!!!

 

[Register123]

That's a popular misconception. Though they seem tall, the Willis Tower, Trump Chicago, John Hancock, Aon, AT&T and 2 Prudential are all shorter than 300m.




(That's joking/sarcasm btw)

He made a list of u/c not already built

 

[TrickyRicky]

I think some may have miss-interpreted my point. My point is that while it is impressive that so many tall buildings are being built, it is presumptious to suggest we can know the long-term impacts this will have. I offer this as a point for reflection. There is nothing wrong with this thread so far as it points out valuable information to people who want to know like a wikipedia entry. It's when you start making value judgements about this information (Toronto has lots of construction, awesome! We kick ass!) that broader discussion starts to be warranted.

A city is not about skyscrapers, it is not about density, it is not about buildings or design. These things happen in cities as a consequence of the interaction of ambitions of a multitude of people.

For example many of the buildings we are building are condos, some are office buildings. Here on this forum we are suggesting that a condo, a hotel, and an office building are the same because they can be the same size (height). That is like saying that a cell phone is like an apple because they are the same height. What matters most about buildings and space is who uses it and maintains it and who has responsibility for it.

It is not the size and shape of a building that will determine how it integrates, how it is sustained, how much value it will provide or detract from a given location. Size and shape matter certainly but in isolation this fixation on size is as vacuous as comparing people based on their size and shape. The size and shape of people matters too, until you realize that it doesn't.

 

[Hipster Duck]

You know, I'm starting to feel that this whole "cities are made up of people, not just buildings" admonishment is way more trite than a good old fashioned skyscraper dick bragging contest.

Most people participating in this thread are here because they think tall buildings are cool, that the more tall buildings under construction, the more exciting things are, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Danielinthecity]

You know, I'm starting to feel that this whole "cities are made up of people, not just buildings" admonishment is way more trite than a good old fashioned skyscraper dick bragging contest.

Most people participating in this thread are here because they think tall buildings are cool, that the more tall buildings under construction, the more exciting things are, and there's nothing wrong with that.

We do think tall buildings are cool, but not ugly detached disconnected tall buildings...I want my tall buildings to look (and feel) 'cool' from a distance AND as I'm walking by them...and that means they must engage me in both contexts too...i.e. look cool in the skyline and look cool as a pedestrian...it would also be a nice bonus if my tall buildings were sustainable too...

 

[jetsbackincanada]

We do think tall buildings are cool, but not ugly detached disconnected tall buildings...I want my tall buildings to look (and feel) 'cool' from a distance AND as I'm walking by them...and that means they must engage me in both contexts too...i.e. look cool in the skyline and look cool as a pedestrian...it would also be a nice bonus if my tall buildings were sustainable too...[/Q

Well said.

 

[Komiksulo]

Coming from the east on the GO bus, I counted thirteen construction cranes in one long glance. Further looking as the bus exited the Gardiner to go to the Union bus station revealed another seven cranes. And I knew perfectly well there were more on the western side of the CBD...

 

[Saint2844]

Coming from the east on the GO bus, I counted thirteen construction cranes in one long glance. Further looking as the bus exited the Gardiner to go to the Union bus station revealed another seven cranes. And I knew perfectly well there were more on the western side of the CBD...

To me all that means is $$$$ being made and population growth. On a side note the vacancy rate in Toronto is 1% so even if all the units are being bought by investors, they are still being rented fast. Keep it up Toronto

 

[Danielinthecity]

To me all that means is $$$$ being made and population growth. On a side note the vacancy rate in Toronto is 1% so even if all the units are being bought by investors, they are still being rented fast. Keep it up Toronto

1%!? Do you mean the 'rental' market? Not that I don't believe you, but it just seems 'really' low...where did you get that stat? I sure hope it's true too.

 

[ttk77]

Toronto's vacancy rate isn't at 1%, but it is still very low (1.6%): http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/corp/nero/nere/2011/2011-06-09-0815.cfm

When I moved into my last apartment before buying a condo, in 2004-2005 the vacancy rate by comparison was up over 4%.

http://www.toronto.ca/planning/housing.htm

If you look at the graph lower on the page in the above link though (it only goes to 2006), it appears that the very high vacancy rate of those years was just a very large blip with things more or less back to normal now. Any idea why that happened?

 

[CN Tower]

If you look at the graph lower on the page in the above link though (it only goes to 2006), it appears that the very high vacancy rate of those years was just a very large blip with things more or less back to normal now. Any idea why that happened?

Post 9/11 short term mortgage rates plummeted and it became seemingly possible to own a condo or home for the price of rent although I would submit that when all home ownership costs were factored in properly it was never actually less expensive to own. Leading up to this huge drop in short term money, rents had spiked considerably and landlords were slow to react to the momumental decrease in rental demand. The result was an enormous spike in vacancies followed by declining rental rates that endured pretty much up until the last year or so. Even still rents have stayed pretty flat and the over abundance of shadow rental stock (ie rental condos) has kept vacancy rates and availability at a much healthier rate that prior to the 2002 shift in home ownership rates.

Current vacancy rates may reflect 1.6% or whatever figure is quoted (I personally deem this inaccurate) but ask a random sample of landlords and I am certain you will find most working far far harder to maintain full occupancy and rental rates that they were achieving in 2001 with no effort combined with perpetually escalating costs.

And yet the asset class continues to remain in high demand as it is properly deemed one of the few true safe havens in this complex world of financial distress. Indeed 3% on your money in a stable rental area with relatively minimum effort along with the depreciation allowances available to property owners certainly surpasses the appeal of t-bills or savings accounts.

 

[Memph]

So much complaining about all these new developments ..... architecture is not the problem, the quality/cost relationship of materials is the problem....Some one on one of these threads said , " A great Art Deco, skyscraper will be built in the next couple years", I almost shot coffee thru my nose...that will never happen...I SAID NEVER!!
Its not that architects cant design em, I'm certain many would love to!!, But the supply of quality materials, and their cost makes this impossible.....To use gilded interiors, oak, marble and the rest would be SOOOOOOO expensive, not to mention the skilled laborers it would take, and the time they would cost...NEVER!!!! Precast and assembly by numbers is the way of the day, and it will never go back. Stone workers are less common than Gay Christians, and I've seen more Dodo birds lately than true deco skyscrapers. To do Deco, in a house, is expensive... 900 feet of it...no way...High end, for that style will be 1 St Thomas, and Uptown will be the new norm!?
So take this into account before you slam all new design.....they are limited to what they can work with.... a kitchen is only as good as it's ingredients, microwaves, freezers, and canned goods, will affect your quality, no matter what name is on the door. Even todays high end Trumps and Four Seasons, are glass, and spandrel....where's all this great design elsewhere????
Have you seen the crap they are putting up in Dubai, and elsewhere?
American city's and developers, cant even afford/ construct/ sell one city place tower....all the negativity????,
If you like skyscrapers and construction, you should know that we are lucky to have this much going on!!! Haters can suck eggs, and go live in Eden Vale, Roseville, or Maple Plain, or any other cul de sac they choose...if you like urbanity, and density, then embrace what's going on here, know that it's amazing, and further making Toronto, one of the most exciting places to live anywhere.
Figure out what Chrysler would cost to build today. and complain about that!!!! Coz, if they did, your 70 ft sq apt, would cost you millions$$$$$ The state of the global economy is in disarray, Toronto is still marching on unabated,and yet the hater anthem still rings out!?
Just be thankful, our great city ain't decaying, like many American urban centers?! Cityplace a blight!? Those rail yards were a blight, so seriously ease up people, and enjoy our emergence on the worlds stage.

PS.... Not all complaints are "Haters", some are very vaild, it just gets old, the whining and pining, get over it move on! I see what Minneapolis is doing by comparison???? A dozen 4 story condos, Ive seen half of them turned into apts, cause there's so little urban fabric, street life or pedestrian traffic. Anytime you add 45 storeys, onto a block , you create a better local business model, instead of taking the car to Wal Mart, you take the elevator to the second floor!!!!!

Regarding the quality of skyscrapers, I think we should have standards (and this isn't really directed specifly to you). A building doesn't need to have guilded interiors but it can still look good. If you look at streets in Berlin, which was largely destroyed in WWII and built with modern construction, it still looks quite nice. And if you build skyscrapers, what you see from the street is mostly just the first few floors, so you don't need to have any spectacular construction on floors 6-60, just the first few. Considering the cost of the whole project, I don't think it should be too difficult to build the first floors quite nicely. It's all great if a building looks spectacular from a distance, but it's basically a luxury if you ask me, it's the first floors that really matter.

Also if you look at Hong Kong, it has some pretty low quality construction and all sorts of dirt and clutter that could be cleaned up, but it's human scaled with lots of shops at grade, so it still feels vibrant. If the first couple floors were spruced up a little, it would look amazing.

 

[CanadianNational]

Mods: should we move this post to the 'Toronto Issues' thread?

 

[interchange42]

Yup. Done.

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