steveve
Senior Member
a very nice cluster of skyscrapers in the area! ^^ Success is a success IMO,
SP!RE
°°°°°°
The Pinnacle Centre offers absolutely nothing to the city... it doesn't even try. The podium is one monolithic form without any relief along its glass and precast expanses. The entire project is pretty much clad in only two (!) materials: glass and cheap white precast.
The towers are boring enough, but it's the fact that the podium is so monotonous and gives almost nothing to the neighbourhood that makes me angry.
Where is the brick? The setbacks? The high ceilings for the retail? A sense of openness to the city? Variation in materials and textures?
The towers are boring enough, but it's the fact that the podium is so monotonous and gives almost nothing to the neighbourhood that makes me angry.
Where is the brick? The setbacks? The high ceilings for the retail? A sense of openness to the city? Variation in materials and textures?
steveve
Senior Member
^^^ aside from the other towers in the complex, Success towers I and II are a lot nicer than a lot that has been built near the lake in the past decade... some of the better green-glass condo towers that have been built in a long time, and i think they look great on the skyline,
and just because a building doesn't have a large variety of building materials doesn't make it boring,
and just because a building doesn't have a large variety of building materials doesn't make it boring,
ProjectEnd
Superstar
I pick on my fair share of towers and these are far from perfect, but they're nothing I would single out as being particularly bad.
SP!RE
°°°°°°
You like that white precast?
Ramako
Moderator
A better angle;
Podium aside, I actually like Success I & II better than the Maple Leaf Square towers. The pre-cast strips do a better job of emphasizing their verticality and delineating their form and massing.
Michael62
Active Member
You can have a look at some interiors and some of the amenities that are housed in the podium.
http://thepinnaclecentre.com/
Most of the street level retail is open for business. There is a Dry cleaner, Unisex hair salon, Sushi shop, Subway Sandwich, Kabab Shop, Italian Sandwich Shop, 2 separate real estate offices, Day Care Centre, Second Cup, The Fox and Fiddle and the soon to open Miller Time Pub.
http://thepinnaclecentre.com/
Most of the street level retail is open for business. There is a Dry cleaner, Unisex hair salon, Sushi shop, Subway Sandwich, Kabab Shop, Italian Sandwich Shop, 2 separate real estate offices, Day Care Centre, Second Cup, The Fox and Fiddle and the soon to open Miller Time Pub.
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
This is pretty much true. Unless you count just giving density to the city...which it does. 1880 residences on 3.8 acres. That's nearly 500 dwelling per acre. Cityplace in comparison, is around 170. We gripe about Cityplace, but at least it offers more than 4 fast food outlets, a dry cleaner and a couple of real estate offices. Cityplace actually has some public realm amenities.
I imagine Pinnacle made section 34 payments that went towards something...and it must have been somewhere else, as Pinnacle Centre basically has no public realm amenities, except for a sidewalk and a few planter boxes. Pinnacle Centre really doesn't give a single thing back to the city....not even buildings that are nice to look at.
Pinnacle Centre seems to me to be nothing more than a depressing little island, hemmed in on one side by an elevated expressway, and an off-ramp to an elevated expressway on the other. There are condos to be had in every nook and cranny of this city...why anybody would choose this location over all others is beyond me.
vegeta_skyline
Senior Member
Evidently walking distance for you is less than a city block. However, most people are actually capable of walking more than a single city block to reach their intended destination.
Pinnacle was limited by space constraints when it came to public realm amenities. There was never much that they could provide within a single city block at the ground level. The reason why there's greater density here was because the towers are taller on average and built closer together. Keep in mind a good % of the limited space around ground level was required for pedestrian, maintenance, garbage and parking access. But there are such amenities within walking distance of the development. And that's my point; not every development can have everything you want or need within an elevator ride. Sometimes you need to walk a little.
Pinnacle was limited by space constraints when it came to public realm amenities. There was never much that they could provide within a single city block at the ground level. The reason why there's greater density here was because the towers are taller on average and built closer together. Keep in mind a good % of the limited space around ground level was required for pedestrian, maintenance, garbage and parking access. But there are such amenities within walking distance of the development. And that's my point; not every development can have everything you want or need within an elevator ride. Sometimes you need to walk a little.
Last edited:
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
I'm not concerned about the proximity of amenities you can get to from Pinnacle Centre...I'm talking about Pinnacle Centre as the destination. It's such a depressing little spot....why would anybody want to live there?
It's not that I'm afraid of walking...it's just that my brand of logics tells me to live in the interesting area, rather than move to a depressing area that is in walking distance of the interesting area.
vegeta_skyline
Senior Member
But the Pinnacle center was never meant to be 'the destination', it was meant to be a place called home. You don't need a public park or a supermarket on every city block. I would definitely consider it an option if downtown living was what I was seeking. And I don't see how you can call Pinnacle Center a 'depressing area' when its surrounded by other city blocks which contain these public realm amenities you so seek.
A city block does not make an island, Pinnacle center was not built in isolation surrounded by a Berlin wall.
jetsbackincanada
Banned
With a name like fresh cut grass, I would suppose most inner city blocks would not be to your liking!!?? Perhaps an open meadow, somewhere near Puslinch might satisfy your need for "amenities"....
I wish peoples comments were less negative all the time, 75 % of peoples comments are just verbal vomit. Does it make you feel important??? Criticizng?... u live in one of the most exciting places in the world, and yet you go on and on whining and seem to not appreciate, the fact that your not COLLAPSING!!!!
You dont like density say that, and move on...if you dont like the 21st century city, why are you here???
Case in point...Trump Shangri LA, and Four Seasons.......All similar in scale, and construction schedule, and every one just hates Trump, and likes the other two...... TRUMP has 2 to 3 times more pages of comments than the two towers that most people like?????
Its just boring madness, listening to the blather , complaining, and whining..... Yet not one person here has done more for the city than a TRUMP TOWER. I really love this forum, but it's a lot like sports radio, theres more chatter, about a loss, than about a win..
Ive started to just look at pictures, cause every ones opinions, become nauseating, and to make matters worse, the enthusiasts like Steveve, And Caltrane , who do more for this forum, than all you bellyachers, have been receiving ridicule??? Serious, when you have taken half the pics those two have, then you may complain or insult them.....or else you just look like bad apples..
I wish every post was a Steveve post..... his excitement and love for his city is wonderful, and commendable......the ones who hate their lives, and wives and take it out on a tower, need to ratchet it down a little.... give an area as Success, or Cityplace to grow into its skin......
just my two cents and opinion, I get that.... but I enjoy seeing Toronto, embrace a forward thinking urban plan, and with density will come more public transit, and a great walkable city.
Seriously three times more comments for Trump, cause the haters Have to make it rain on parade day..BOO to u all!!!
Cheers for Toronto!!
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
steveve seems like a terrific guy and his enthusiasm is infectious but the reason why a lot of people complain so much about so many projects is because there is so much to complain about. About 50% of what has been built in downtown Toronto in the past 10 or 12 years is unattractive, poorly planned cheap crap, pure and simple. The other 50% is decent to great, which is what we need more of - greatness, and we must demand more of it until the boom goes bust. If you want less 'verbal vomit' there are other boards to go to where mediocrity is celebrated, but I hope you stick around and counter what you don't believe to be true. That creates good discussion.
jetsbackincanada
Banned
I appreciate that, and having not seen any thing there in person it makes it tougher to comment some times, yet I see very little difference between whats loved and hated on..again possibly seeing these places in person might make that difference, but ROCP, isnt any worse to me than Casa, James Cooper mansion looks really nice, and was unmentioned , X was way overpraised, it just seems a few peoples opinions here, can steer the multitude, and we know most people are not free thinkers...
Most of the cityplace towers are quite attractive, I watch the Jays all summer, and The Baltimore broadcasters, kept commenting on all the towers and the amazing amount of growth, around the stadium, and throughout the city, literally jaw dropping, they marvelled at all the change and how robust the city is, have these complainers crossed the 49th paralel lately...??
There is nothing being built now, that is HORRIBLE, and nothing being built now that is AMAZING, those offset block looking towers, are some of the worst designs I have ever seen, and I hope that crap doesnt get built..... Toronto isn't trying to re=invent the wheel here, just build as much desnity, for a varied economic strata, as possible.....
I could see if there were a couple true Art Deco towers going up here, to truly compare against spandrel and glass, but there aint.. the truth is from Lumiere, to Lightbox, and from Uptown to X, the gap isnt that wide, they are all in the middle of the road, and rate from 5, to 7 or 8 status, nothing to cry over though!!
One Bloor seems to have the best chance at being a truly amazing tower, but I think if you look at those recent areal shots of downtown, most everything thats new, adds some much needed color, and glass, to the old stock of brick and mortar construction!
Lastly I have seen the crap going up in Dubai, and China, and would not trade these understated towers for that disney/Vegas approach to design, but thats just me.... and where are these far better towers going up in the world????? I havent seen 'em...the current state of construction materials, and cost relationships, should be the source of this vitriol, as they are the true culprit..... not designers.....
Most of the cityplace towers are quite attractive, I watch the Jays all summer, and The Baltimore broadcasters, kept commenting on all the towers and the amazing amount of growth, around the stadium, and throughout the city, literally jaw dropping, they marvelled at all the change and how robust the city is, have these complainers crossed the 49th paralel lately...??
There is nothing being built now, that is HORRIBLE, and nothing being built now that is AMAZING, those offset block looking towers, are some of the worst designs I have ever seen, and I hope that crap doesnt get built..... Toronto isn't trying to re=invent the wheel here, just build as much desnity, for a varied economic strata, as possible.....
I could see if there were a couple true Art Deco towers going up here, to truly compare against spandrel and glass, but there aint.. the truth is from Lumiere, to Lightbox, and from Uptown to X, the gap isnt that wide, they are all in the middle of the road, and rate from 5, to 7 or 8 status, nothing to cry over though!!
One Bloor seems to have the best chance at being a truly amazing tower, but I think if you look at those recent areal shots of downtown, most everything thats new, adds some much needed color, and glass, to the old stock of brick and mortar construction!
Lastly I have seen the crap going up in Dubai, and China, and would not trade these understated towers for that disney/Vegas approach to design, but thats just me.... and where are these far better towers going up in the world????? I havent seen 'em...the current state of construction materials, and cost relationships, should be the source of this vitriol, as they are the true culprit..... not designers.....
Last edited:
steveve
Senior Member
I think these buildings (Success tower 1 and 2) are above average in this city in terms of these mid-range, tall. condominium towers. They're sharp looking, have a great balance of height, and look good on the skyline. I think these are better then One Bedford, MLS (aside from the podium), ROCP, Burano, Parade (so far. the skybridge might change it for me), the design is much more interesting than Casa, and alot of other stuff.
though i will say, the other towers in the complex are pretty unattractive.
though i will say, the other towers in the complex are pretty unattractive.