My girlfriend lives in 18 Harbour and bought an investment condo in 33 Bay.

I like the buildings. Her unit (2 bedroom, 2 bath, den) in 18 Harbour is halfway up the building, with a really nice design inside that's comfortable with very good views. The point about it not being a destination is well-taken... but man, I love the location. From there, you can walk to so many destinations. In summer it's sublime to walk to Sugar Beach or Harbourfront. I'm a suburban-house-lifetime-car-driver-kind-of-guy who has seen the light. I don't debate the architecture itself (I'm not gonna stand outside and look at it everyday... lol), but I will say from experience that the two units she has in this complex are excellent and well designed, with good finishes... everything one needs in a practical sense is close by, and the within-walking distance amenities are wonderful. I'm moving in soon. LOL.
 
Very well siad..

thats is the whole point of Urbanity, walkable, intermingling, density, with vibrant cafes, and safe streets, ...I never heard residents of the space station, complain about the exterior finishings....
Its about allowing you to live within that space, the "Dakota", and its kin, are products of a bygone era, and like an old Chevy 57, or pre war Cadillac,....lament their descendants all u want, disposable is where we live, and these times are not going to reverse themselves.....and of all the condo towers built the last ten years in NA, Toronto not only has more than anyone, it also has more luxury than most..the high end mixed towers we got recently will stand up to all of Chicago, and New Yorks latest additions.
 
With a name like fresh cut grass, I would suppose most inner city blocks would not be to your liking!!?? Perhaps an open meadow, somewhere near Puslinch might satisfy your need for "amenities"....
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Don't try and read into things....the handle has nothing to do with urban design....I'm as "inner city" as they get.


You dont like density say that, and move on..
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I love density, and if you were to actually comprehend what I was saying in my post, you would see it is one thing I do like about PC. But density in and of itself is not the only factor to be considered.


Case in point...Trump Shangri LA, and Four Seasons.......All similar in scale, and construction schedule, and every one just hates Trump, and likes the other two.....
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I can't speak for anyone else, but Trump just doesn't stand up to scrutiny from an architectural standpoint...it really isn't very good design. It is a very prominent building, so the scrutiny is more pronounced.


I wish peoples comments were less negative all the time, 75 % of peoples comments are just verbal vomit.
I wish every post was a Steveve post...
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Right...meanwhile your whole post is one large exercise in bitching & moaning and not on topic really either. Expecting the world to conform to your distorted view of it is rather narcissistic.

I welcome all posts & views...debate is good (even your personal attacks and incorrect assumptions).
 
There have been MUCH worse things than Pinnacle Centre vomited up in this city in the past decade.. I actually like them.

Case in point, what is just south of PC.. Kill it with fire!
 
But the Pinnacle center was never meant to be 'the destination', it was meant to be a place called home.
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I find it sad that one's home is not considered a destination. Maybe that explains why people will buy any condo, in any building, at any location. No wonder Toronto is the King of Condos....we're hard-core addicts, and don't care where or from who get our fix.


And I don't see how you can call Pinnacle Center a 'depressing area' when its surrounded by other city blocks which contain these public realm amenities you so seek.

A city block does not make an island, Pinnacle center was not built in isolation surrounded by a Berlin wall.
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As I pointed out, yes, it is within walking distance of interesting or pleasant areas...the waterfront, Financial District, St Lawrence. But that location itself is not great. And that part is not the fault of the developer...it's just made worse by Pinnacle Centre, which is nothing more than a lowest common-denomenator style corporate condo profit machine.

And it is an island...it is surrounded by very pedestrian-unfriendly elements on all sides...Gardiner/Lakeshore...Lower Bay...Lower Yonge...Harbour street (which is really just an off-ramp for the Gardiner). Even with other developments that will eventually be built in the immediate area, it will not change this.

This particular area is never going to be a "neighbourhood" or part of one of the neighbouring ones. Perhaps it could be dubbed "Off-Ramp"?
 
freshcutgrass said:
I find it sad that one's home is not considered a destination.
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I don't. My home is a place of recuperation and relaxation. I don't want or need for it to be the destination when there already is a vast array of destination's nearby.

And it is an island...it is surrounded by very pedestrian-unfriendly elements on all sides...Gardiner/Lakeshore...Lower Bay...Lower Yonge...Harbour street (which is really just an off-ramp for the Gardiner). Even with other developments that will eventually be built in the immediate area, it will not change this.
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What are you talking about? Whether Pinnacle center was built or not this locations would still be surrounded by those 'pedestrian-unfriendly' elements no matter what was developed here. Or perhaps you are suggestion that the block should remain undeveloped in perpetuity? What a great city-building idea that is.

It's an island? So I suppose the entire waterfront would qualify as an island to you since its cut off from the rest of the city by the elevated expressway and the rail corridor right? Honesty have you even been down there? The area is not lacking in pedestrian traffic by the degree that you seem to be suggesting. Sure it'll never be Yonge street, but does every street need to be just like Yonge? My answer is an emphatic NO.
 
My home is a place of recuperation and relaxation.
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And nothing says "rest and relaxation" like OFF RAMP CITY. It's almost like Algonquin Park.

What are you talking about? Whether Pinnacle center was built or not this locations would still be surrounded by those 'pedestrian-unfriendly' elements no matter what was developed here.
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Exactly what I said. Pinnacle has no control over that....but they do have control over their own land. And that's where they failed to do a good job.


Or perhaps you are suggestion that the block should remain undeveloped in perpetuity? What a great city-building idea that is.
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Nope. Keep thinking. If you want to fix a post-industrial wasteland where the road design is not compatible with its new residential neighbourhood use...what great city-building solution do you think is required?

Otherwise, the status quo will remain a sh!t sandwich. All I'm saying is I'm passing on taking a bite.
 
freshcutgrass said:
And nothing says "rest and relaxation" like OFF RAMP CITY. It's almost like Algonquin Park.
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As if this is the only condo out there that's built next to a highway or an off ramp or more importantly as if that alone precludes the possibility of building a residential development in an urban environment.

All I'm saying is I'm passing on taking a bite.
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Obviously your not one of them but last I checked enough people live in this development to fill almost 1880 units. Its such a 'sh!t sandwich' that over 2000, probably closer to 3000, people chose to call this place home, right? :rolleyes:
 
As if this is the only condo out there that's built next to a highway or an off ramp or more importantly as if that alone precludes the possibility of building a residential development in an urban environment.
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You don't appear to be listening. The thread is about Pinnacle, so that's what I'm talking about. No...it isn't the only, or the worse example of what I'm being critical of.

Its such a 'sh!t sandwich' that over 2000, probably closer to 3000, people chose to call this place home, right?
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By that logic, Jane/Finch must be utopia, as many times more people choose to live there.
 
My girlfriend lives in 18 Harbour and bought an investment condo in 33 Bay.

I like the buildings. Her unit (2 bedroom, 2 bath, den) in 18 Harbour is halfway up the building, with a really nice design inside that's comfortable with very good views. The point about it not being a destination is well-taken... but man, I love the location. From there, you can walk to so many destinations.
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Yea...well no matter where you are in downtown, you are within walking distance of lots of things.

But the curb appeal of the structure I actually live in matters to me...be it a house or a large building. The immediate vicinity of where I live also matters a lot to me. And when you walk out onto the street from Pinnacle (given how much of the land at PC is devoted to that huge circular drive I imagine a lot of the residents drive in/out), it becomes painfully obvious that your home is plunked down in the middle of an area who's main function is to funnel cars in and out of downtown. It's just so over-bearing I find it depressing.

I have old friends that bought a unit at World trade back when it was built. They thought it was so great to be "living on the water". I thought that location was depressing as well, despite being "on the water". Their unit did not face the lake though...it faced directly north. It actually had a great view of the Financial District. Guess what all you can see out their window now? Yep...Pinnacle Centre. ha ha ha

But at least if you're right on Queen's Quay, things are probably going to become a bit less depressing in that area in the future. But Off Ramp City doesn't have much hope of improving much.
 
freshcutgrass said:
By that logic, Jane/Finch must be utopia, as many times more people choose to live there.
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Uh no. That's just flat out wrong.
People don't chose to live at Jane and Finch, rather they don't have a choice, because that's all they can afford. Its nonsensical to compare Jane/Finch to the Pinnacle center since the demographics are completely different. If you really believe 2000+ people would pay more than 500$ per sq foot to move into a building equivalent to one at Jane and Finch, than clearly you've had too much 'freshcutgrass', the kind that you can smoke that is.
 
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I wonder what's going on on top of Pinnacle I. They seem to be erecting some sort of structure on the roof in the latest round of updates. Poolhouse?
 
That's Success Tower that's got the new steel structure up there - or Pinnacle 3, right? I think it is for a poolhouse.

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Yes it is to enclose the private pool on Tower 3 (Success Tower).

@ freshcutgrass - Please tell us which building you think would be your ideal place of residence
 
Fresh might be interested to know that the City is planning to redo the off ramps from the Gardiner to Yonge/Bay/York so that they all descend back at Simcoe. As well as making the park west of the new RBC building at 85 Harbour more of a park, the plan should also slow down that stretch of Harbour Street a bit, making the whole area more inviting for pedestrians.

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