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How fast would a subway need to be going in order to clear the river valley when it hits a ramp on a 30 degree incline?

But on a more serious note, getting to Thorncliffe Park isn't really an unsurmountable obstacle. If the money is there for the subway expansion the money is probably there for the bridge as well.

Transit Bridge
 
"I always thought the easiest way to skip the Don Valley was to have the line go north under Victoria Park. I also think Victoria Park has more opportunities for redevelopment. Of course, I'd also include an Eglinton East line to soak up the large demand at Flemingdon Park."

But it would absolutely have to curve back east to hit Don Mills & Sheppard and possibly continue north to Don Mills and Finch. Redeveloping Vic Park wouldn't necessarily be that easy - it's lined almost entirely with housing, not plazas. The Consumers area would be served by the Sheppard line and the Golden Mile would be served by the Eglinton line. The large office park at Steeles will be served by Viva.

A Pape line hits the densest areas and does not backtrack, which is important if the line is to relieve Yonge. I don't see why the Leaside bridge can't be rebuilt if it needs to be done. And would it need to be done? Is it a weight problem? Just build a Redway extension to Bayview so the Leaside bridge doesn't need to be widened and its car lanes can be used by the subway, or whatever.
 
I believe Leaside Bridge was specially reinforced to carry PCC streetcars that never arrived. Perhaps it could be retrofitted to handle a subway. But as somebody else pointed out, if there was money enough to put a subway up Don Mills, there'd be money enough for a bridge, or a deep tunnel.

...James
 
The Leaside bridge has been reduced to one lane for construction for some time now, and there hasn't been a traffic crisis. For a subway line, it doesn't seem unreasonable that two or even four of the six lanes could be taken. That would save at least a hundred million from the construction cost of a parallel bridge.

There were several reasons the Downtown Relief Line report recommended the Pape-Eastern Ave alignment over a Donlands-Railway alignment. One was the perceived availability of a yard site where the Toronto Film Studio is presently located on Eastern. Another was the fact that a Pape station was far more suited to the official plan and Pape is a much busier station. The final reason was that any subway line along the rail corridor would require a complex structure cantilevered over the existing tracks, necessitating closures of the Kingston Sub during construction. It was thought that this would cost no less (if not more) than a cut-and-cover tunnel under Pape.
 
One potential problem with a deep tunnel is that a Thorncliffe or Flemingdon station would have to be reeeeeal deep...
 
St. Clair LRT Status Report

From TTC Commissioner's Report site:

February 2005

TORONTO TRANSIT COMMISSION

REPORT NO.

MEETING DATE: April 19, 2006

SUBJECT: ST. CLAIR STREETCAR PROJECT: STATUS REPORT

RECOMMENDATIONS

It is recommended that the Commission:



1. Receive this report for information, noting that:

· the previous legal obstacle to this project was successfully resolved when the Ontario Superior Court dismissed the application for judicial review of the project;

· the projected costs for this project, as defined in the environmental assessment report, remain unchanged from the $65 million reported in the November 28, 2005 report to the Commission;

· upon successful conclusion of negotiations with the contractors and subsequent approval by the City of Toronto, construction on the project will resume on June 5, 2006 for the section between Yonge Street and Vaughan Road;

· community consultation is continuing through the two forums established by the Minister of the Environment and the City of Toronto;

· there are ongoing discussions, led by City Transportation Services, regarding the feasibility of, and funding for, the out-of-scope, but desirable, features of burying all hydro wires underground, reconstructing the sidewalks, resurfacing the roadway, and installing new decorative street lighting at mid-block locations along St. Clair Avenue West; and

2. Forward this report to the City of Toronto for information.

FUNDING

This report has no effect on the TTC’s capital or operating budgets.

BACKGROUND

There continues to be a high level of interest in the St. Clair Streetcar project. In order to keep the Commission apprised of progress on this project, staff will, from time to time, submit progress reports. This is the first such report.

DISCUSSION

Here is the status of all major aspects of the project:

Legal

The group called Save Our St. Clair (SOS) is opposed to the St. Clair Streetcar project and requested a judicial review of Council’s authority to undertake the project. While this issue was before the courts, construction on the project was halted. This legal issue was successfully resolved when, on February 21, 2006, the Ontario Superior Court dismissed SOS’s application for judicial review, concluding that the St. Clair Streetcar project is in conformity with the City of Toronto Official Plan and that it complies with all requirements of the Environmental Assessment Act.

Financial

The financial status of the project remains unchanged from what was reported in the November 28, 2005, report to the Commission on this matter. Specifically:

· the currently-projected final costs (EFC) for the project, as defined in the original environmental assessment report, remain at $65 million;

· the project has incurred additional costs, which are entirely attributable to the disruption of the project caused by the judicial review, those being legal costs, construction contract penalties, delay-related inflation, construction mitigation at Yonge/St. Clair, and prolonged use of buses to replace streetcars; these externally-driven costs remain estimated at $2.7 million;

· negotiations are currently underway with the construction contractors whose work was suspended because of the judicial review, in order to determine the costs associated with the suspension of work. When these negotiations are concluded, the final costs will be reported to Budget Advisory Committee;

The full cost of the St. Clair Streetcar project is included in the TTC’s Capital Program, as a result of the budget approach recommended by the Budget Advisory Committee, at its meeting of November 17, 2005, to transfer the City’s original $20 million share of the project costs to the TTC in order to allow for single-agency cost accounting.

Construction

Construction will resume on the project in 2006, upon successful conclusion of negotiations with the contractors and subsequent approval by the City of Toronto, and will be carried out under three different contacts:

· Contract #1: covers the section of the route between Yonge Street and Avenue Road. This construction will begin on June 5, 2006.

· Contract #2: covers the section of the route between Avenue Road and Tweedsmuir Avenue. This construction will begin on June 5, 2006.

· Contract #3: covers the section of the route between Tweedsmuir Avenue and Vaughan Road. This construction will begin on July 3, 2006.

Work continues to be undertaken, jointly by TTC and City staff, on the detailed engineering work for areas further west along the line.

Community Consultation

Consultation with the community continues through the two forums established by the Minister of the Environment and the City of Toronto.

The Community Design Consultation Group (CDCG) is responsible for working with the project team to provide input and comments during the detailed design process regarding the appearance of streetscape features such as transit shelters, transit platforms, trees and landscaping, urban design elements, street furniture, and public art. The CDCG’s most-recent meeting was held on April 5, 2006, and the group will continue to meet throughout the project.

The Transit Community Liaison Committee (TCLC) is responsible for input regarding the detailed design, implementation, and construction of the project, and for facilitating communication between the community and the City and TTC. The TCLC’s next meeting is scheduled for April 19, 2006.

Additional Urban Design Improvements

It was reported in the November 28, 2005 Commission report that there are four additional discretionary features which were not included in the original environmental assessment recommendations nor in the original budget, but which would contribute significantly to creating an attractive pedestrian, retailing, and urban environment which, in turn, would contribute to Toronto’s “Beautiful City†campaign. These are:

· repaving the entire surface of St. Clair Avenue West, from Yonge Street to Gunns Road in order to create an improved travel corridor and enhanced appearance;

· reconstructing all of the sidewalks in mid-block locations along St. Clair Avenue to create a unified urban design and improved appearance of the pedestrian and open spaces;

· relocating underground all hydro wires over this section of St. Clair Avenue in order to reduce visual clutter on the street; and

· replacing all regular street lighting and poles with new, improved decorative lighting.


The earlier Commission report noted that incorporation of any of these discretionary features would require the approval of additional funding for the project which would be over and above the original EFC and current budget for the project. Toronto Transportation Services is currently reviewing the feasibility of undertaking these discretionary improvements and reviewing options for the funding of these additional expenses. These discussions are ongoing, and any proposal to incorporate these features into the project will be contained in future status reports.

SUMMARY

Work on the St. Clair Streetcar project is proceeding satisfactorily, and all original-scope components of the project are expected to be completed within budget and within the originally-projected two construction seasons. At this time, there are no major problems or obstacles to report.

AoD
 
Sounds good. Honestly, when you read this it is simply mind-boggling that there would have been opposition. They will improve the avenue so much. Bury overhead wires, replace all the lights along the avenue with new decorative lights, improve the road, the sidewalk. This is a terrific investment in the future of the neighbourhood.
 
I agree. The sooner it's built, the sooner the benefits will come forth for the neighbourhoods and communities it serves.
 
St Clair EA Phase II

Phase II for the St Clair Expansion EA is to startup this summer. This expansion will see the St Clair line extended to Jane St from Gunns Rd now that the SOS mess is out of the way.

The City of Toronto has fail to protect any ROW for the New CP Scarlett Rd bridge at this time.

This expansion will most likely see Expropriation takeing place on the south side of St Clair for the NEW ROW.
 
It would be to Jane St only, but don't hold me as this keeps on changing.

Jane St requires its own EA for an LRT line running from Bloor to Steeles.

This would be the third new LRT line that I call for in 2005 on June 22 at TTC meeting. Don Mills would be 1 follow by Finch as 2 and then Steeles.
 
Is it decided for sure that the route would run along St. Clair all the way to Jane. I have heard that they are also considering running to Runnymede and then down to Dundas.
 
"Jane St requires its own EA for an LRT line running from Bloor to Steeles.

This may not be needed if the subway's going there.
 
Yes. Running the streetcar to Runnymede Loop was one of the possibilities.

Jane and St. Clair seems like an awfully awkward intersection for a streetcar loop. Runnymede already has a loop.




This may not be needed if the subway's going there.

Um.. Not everyone who goes up Jane is going to Jane and Steeles. There's an awful lot of distance between Jane Station and Steeles, and it will continue to be a busy route with the subway.

Besides. Going from Jane Station along Bloor to St. George, then taking the Spadina line up to Steeles would make absolutely no sense.
 
Jane is a very narrow road for a right-of-way. How would they fit it in without reducing the road to one lane each way?

I'd bet that Jane station to St. George, then north on the subway would probably be faster than taking the LRT.
 

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