[kEiThZ]

^ The fix is in. Nothing is going to change. When it comes to the politics of public projects, democracy does not matter. You can thank the Milleristas. Funny, how it was the "conservative" candidate, Jane Pitfield, who supported a continuous subway building program as a way to expand the network.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Getting something cancelled isn't the hard part...getting what you want instead is.

 

[W. K. Lis]

For the automobile-addicted, it will be terrible. But for the transit user, it will be better than what is there now.

A heavy rail system may be better for capacity, but it would be more expensive and take longer to build. A light rail system would be cheaper to build and serve a larger area. I don't think the capacity is there or will be there for heavy rail.

If you still want heavy rail, ask for higher taxes first to pay for it.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

And as Vancouver proved, a completely grade separated system can be cheaper and built more quickly than both LRT and subway.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

For the automobile-addicted, it will be terrible. But for the transit user, it will be better than what is there now.

A heavy rail system may be better for capacity, but it would be more expensive and take longer to build. A light rail system would be cheaper to build and serve a larger area. I don't think the capacity is there or will be there for heavy rail.

If you still want heavy rail, ask for higher taxes first to pay for it.

Well, the Sheppard line won't be a bit better than the bus routes being replaced...the EA is pretty damning in this respect, and it portrays ideal scenarios.

 

[Dan416]

I'd rather cancel the Sheppard East LRT outright and not get the subway finished than allow this atrocity to be committed.

I think if people notice that there's a sea of change of opinion and that people don't support the Sheppard East LRT, then the politicians will have to question why.

I think a reasonable expectation is that Sheppard be finished as subway, and Danforth finished to STC. And Eglinton be done as LRT. It's a compromise, but it's fair I think.

 

[tkip]

Funny how.....

No one seemed to respond to that posted article talking about Peak Oil and what the future implications might be.

Who knows, maybe behind the scenes the powers that be know and are quietly encouraging any kind of public transit expansion to better prepare for the hordes of people no longer able to drive but I kind of doubt this.

I think we as a civilization (on a global scale) are just going to consume and rip through our resources until we hit a wall and things fall apart.

 

[GenerationW]

No one seemed to respond to that posted article talking about Peak Oil and what the future implications might be.

For those old enough, stories appeared in the 70's and 80's that warned we'd run out of oil in 50 years or even sooner (i.e. now!), so some see Peak Oil as just another the-sky-is-falling scenario.

I think we as a civilization (on a global scale) are just going to consume and rip through our resources until we hit a wall and things fall apart.

What else is new?

 

[hkric88]

For the automobile-addicted, it will be terrible. But for the transit user, it will be better than what is there now.

A heavy rail system may be better for capacity, but it would be more expensive and take longer to build. A light rail system would be cheaper to build and serve a larger area. I don't think the capacity is there or will be there for heavy rail.

If you still want heavy rail, ask for higher taxes first to pay for it.

I'm pretty comfortable that the TTC will take just as long, if not longer, to build LRT as it does a subway. At least they have experience building subways.

 

[rbt]

For those old enough, stories appeared in the 70's and 80's that warned we'd run out of oil in 50 years or even sooner (i.e. now!), so some see Peak Oil as just another the-sky-is-falling scenario.

The warnings during that period were indicating that North America would run out of cheap oil. If you look at where oil for the continent is sourced from today, they were right.

Tar-sands were not considered cheap and easily accessible oil (at that time); the fact that those types of sources can be profitable also shows that the warnings were right.

The media, however, spun it into hysterics and claimed end of the world.

OIL will never run out. We can manufacture it directly out of the air. The cost, however, will increase if cheap oil runs out.

 

[Second_in_pie]

I'd rather cancel the Sheppard East LRT outright and not get the subway finished than allow this atrocity to be committed.

I think if people notice that there's a sea of change of opinion and that people don't support the Sheppard East LRT, then the politicians will have to question why.

I think a reasonable expectation is that Sheppard be finished as subway, and Danforth finished to STC. And Eglinton be done as LRT. It's a compromise, but it's fair I think.

I'd rather have the SE LRT cancelled, then have to wait 5 years for the Sheppard Extension to STC to get started. The SE LRT will last a lot longer than 10 years, and I'd rather take more time to do something better than to quickly and inexpensively do something that won't be nearly as good, especially when it will last as long as a LRT would.

However, I don't like the idea of comprimising with "Extend Sheppard and Bloor to STC, but you could build Eglinton as a LRT." In the end, we have enough money to do them all, and they should all be done. We might just have to space them out a bit more than we would with Transit City.

 

[Rainforest]

I think a reasonable expectation is that Sheppard be finished as subway, and Danforth finished to STC. And Eglinton be done as LRT. It's a compromise, but it's fair I think.

This is a good suggestion, which does not require much more funding on top of the already committed resources.

The cost of subway to STC plus at-grade LRT from there to Malvern would be about same as the planned cost of SRT extension. The more expensive Kennedy - STC section would be counterbalanced by the cheaper STC - Malvern section.

The cost of Sheppard subway extension would be partly offset by the cancellation of "Finch E / Don Mills bypass" and shortening of the Sheppard LRT. Additional funding would be needed in that case, but it would be in the range of hundreds of millions, not billions.

 

[Rainforest]

Sheppard LRT

There is always a chance to overrule an EA or any kind of plan, but it is hard to overwrite facts on the ground. Once they start laying tracks on the eastmost section of Sheppard and build a carhouse near Morningside, no new mayor will abandon that infrastructure.

So, LRT along the eastmost section of Sheppard is almost guaranteed to happen, but up to a revision might be the place where the subway and the LRT meet. Per the existing plan, they meet at Don Mills, but an amendment might have them meet further east, for example at Agincourt.

 

[Second_in_pie]

^^ It would still be a massive waste of money, but it would be better than having a LRT along the whole stretch of Sheppard east of Don Mills.

But what I'd do is this:

-The Morningside Carhouse gets built.
-When it's finished, it's almost election time. Miller gets booted out and Transit City is going to be redone more logically (Subways where needed, LRT where needed, etc.)
-SE LRT gets cancelled for Sheppard Extension to STC.
-SRT extension cancelled, replaced by B-D extension to STC
-Scarborough-Malvern LRT still on the table, now going to be extended to Malvern Town Centre instead of the SRT.

This would make use of the Morningside Carhouse, which could be the main carhouse for a Kingston Road LRT (and it's spur line, the Scarborough-Malvern LRT.)

Of course, things would just be better if someone smacked Miller on the head, somehow making him realize how stupid TC is and canceling it.

 

[DavidH]

Miller gets booted out and Transit City is going to be redone more logically (Subways where needed, LRT where needed, etc.)

What makes you think that a new mayor would be in any position to undo a Metrolinx project?