[BurlOak]

View attachment 20943

For B-D. In the West, there is no real interest from Peel to extnd the subway so I think Honeydale make sense to meet buses coming from 427. It can also be built at grade so it can be done cheap.
In the East, I see some overlap between Eglinton and the Lakeshore GO. I like continuing the B-D as the E-W route. I would definately extend B-D the 4.5 km to Kingston Road (station at Brimley/Danforth, GO, and Markham/Kingston). The next extension is another 5 km to UTSC (Guildwood, Galloway/Lawrence, and UTSC), which I am not sure is quite as important, but will eventually be needed. Pickering is still 10 km farther away, which I think is too far.

ECLRT. Since B-D already had tail tracks under the GO line at Kennedy, I had it going east and Eglinton (which of course is elevated through Scarborough) going north along the SRT corridor and extended to Malvern and Finch. It would be ALRT to reduce the closure time during construction.
In the West, I like elevating Eglinton through the Richview corridor to Pearson. I think that line may be long enough and would have the Peel lines as separate. One Peel LRT would be Hurontario from the Lake to Brampton. One would be from the Lake to Pearson via SQ1. One would be Brampton to Pearson via SQ1.

Sheppard. I can not support abandoning a line that cost $1B and probably has a current value closer to $2B. We need to find a way of incorporating the existing Sheppard into the solution.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

For B-D. In the West, there is no real interest from Peel to extnd the subway so I think Honeydale make sense to meet buses coming from 427. It can also be built at grade so it can be done cheap.
In the East, I see some overlap between Eglinton and the Lakeshore GO. I like continuing the B-D as the E-W route. I would definately extend B-D the 4.5 km to Kingston Road (station at Brimley/Danforth, GO, and Markham/Kingston). The next extension is another 5 km to UTSC (Guildwood, Galloway/Lawrence, and UTSC), which I am not sure is quite as important, but will eventually be needed. Pickering is still 10 km farther away, which I think is too far.

ECLRT. Since B-D already had tail tracks under the GO line at Kennedy, I had it going east and Eglinton (which of course is elevated through Scarborough) going north along the SRT corridor and extended to Malvern and Finch. It would be ALRT to reduce the closure time during construction.
In the West, I like elevating Eglinton through the Richview corridor to Pearson. I think that line may be long enough and would have the Peel lines as separate. One Peel LRT would be Hurontario from the Lake to Brampton. One would be from the Lake to Pearson via SQ1. One would be Brampton to Pearson via SQ1.

Sheppard. I can not support abandoning a line that cost $1B and probably has a current value closer to $2B. We need to find a way of incorporating the existing Sheppard into the solution.

Here what you proposed.
I have to say, it's a bit disjointed imo. But I understand why you suggested it about Kennedy GO. I also left extensions out of city in this one. I still want to abandon sheppard.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I chose Dixon Rd instead of Eglinton west because it is denser.

 

[BurlOak]

View attachment 20944

Here what you proposed.
I have to say, it's a bit disjointed imo. But I understand why you suggested it about Kennedy GO. I also left extensions out of city in this one. I still want to abandon sheppard.

Thanks for the graphics.

I actually want the Eglinton to follow the same path you had - elevated along Eglinton to Pearson. In my ramblings earlier, I may have said that if it mus be in the median along Eglinton, then there should also be a second branch along Dixon - but this is not my first choice.

I forgot to add the DRL, which I think you pretty much nailed - especially in the East end. In the West, I still think the UPE will be converted to a more local line and thus I do not want too much overlap between it and the DRL West.

Just to add a twist, I thought about a Gondola from UTSC to Centennial, with an intermediate stop at the hospital.

I am still on the Fence with Sheppard and Finch. The key is to overlay this map with frequent, all-day GO service. I am leaning of having subway to Agincourt GO in the east. In the West, I am leaning towards interlining with Spadina.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Thanks for the graphics.

I actually want the Eglinton to follow the same path you had - elevated along Eglinton to Pearson. In my ramblings earlier, I may have said that if it mus be in the median along Eglinton, then there should also be a second branch along Dixon - but this is not my first choice.

I forgot to add the DRL, which I think you pretty much nailed - especially in the East end. In the West, I still think the UPE will be converted to a more local line and thus I do not want too much overlap between it and the DRL West.

Just to add a twist, I thought about a Gondola from UTSC to Centennial, with an intermediate stop at the hospital.

I am still on the Fence with Sheppard and Finch. The key is to overlay this map with frequent, all-day GO service. I am leaning of having subway to Agincourt GO in the east. In the West, I am leaning towards interlining with Spadina.

I think Dixon-Eglinton-Malvern would work because Dixon is denser and would produce more ridership. It's also closer to the airport. I like the idea of Sheppard to Aigncourt, but I don't know how much would that cost. As for the DRL, I think weston and lawrence would be a good western terminus, as that is at Weston GO.

IMO, I still think Sheppard should go and we use the Skytrain on Finch. It would cost less to run and operate.

 

[BurlOak]

This map has

1. All the GO lines having frequent all day service.
2. Yonge north extension to Richmond Hill.
3. Bloor west extension to Sherway.
4. Bloor east extension to UTSC.
5. Sheppard subway interlined and extended. One branch STC to VCC, one branch STC to Downsview to Union to Richmond Hill.
6. Eglinton/SRT combined (ALRT, or possibly LRT) from Pearson to Malvern.
7. DRL from Seneca College to Mount Dennis (ALRT or HRT).
8. Finch West LRT.
9. Jane LRT from Mount Dennis to York U.
10. Scarborough Gondola from UTSC to Rouge Valley Hospital to Centennial College.
11. 427 BRT from Humber College to Woodbine Casino to Pearson to Eglinton to Honeydale to Long Branch.
12. All grade separated Streetcar rebranded as LRT Lite.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Nice Burloak. I like the interlining.

For me, some changes

I brought the sheppard subway up Finch to Islington-Albion, Finch- Albion and Humber college. Just in case the Finch LRT actually does get cancelled. Plus it makes sheppard a viable line. In the east, I brought the sheppard subway down on ellesmere to the University of Toronto Scarborough. Again makes sheppard viable and brings more ridership.

I did the Dundas extension in the west on the Bloor line, but in the east I continued along Eglinton and then Kingston to UTS. I think that place can be a far east transit hub. I also connected Eglinton with the SRT. No transfer. Also brought it to Malvern Centre, and the airport. The DRL ends at Mount Dennis and Seneca College in the east. If this is the provide true relief, then let's do it right.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Wayyy too much coverage of Scarborough. it has more than downtown.

mine:


Yellow: subway
Dark Blue: grade seperated LRT
Light Blue: surface LRT
Orange: BRT
Red: Streetcar (thinnest is mixed street, middle thickness is ROW, thickest is grade seperated)
Black: GO (thinnest is peak only service, middle thickness is all day 2 way GO on hourly frequencies, thickest is 15 minute GO express service)

 

[gweed123]

After several weeks of working on this, I've finally updated my "master" transit map for the GTHA. The 3 biggest changes from the previous version are the adjustment of the DRL (which I've rebranded as the Scarborough-Exhibition Dufferin-Don Mills Subway, or SEDD), the conversion of the Sheppard Subway into LRT to form a single northern crosstown, and the new fare zone structure.

The fare zone structure may look complicated, but figuring out the fare is actually pretty simple. The base fare covers 2 zones, and it's $1 for each extra zone. So to figure out your fare, it's the number of zones, plus 50¢. So 3 zones is $3.50, 8 zones is $8.50, etc.

Note: The file that I have uploaded in the thread is the map with the background satellite image removed. If you want the full version of the map (warning: 29MB file), it can be found here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43869799/GTA System Map - To Scale - Version 2.pdf

Any comments, suggestions, critiques, or pointing out of errors/omissions (because there are bound to be a few) is appreciated!

 

[innsertnamehere]

Looks good, but here are some comments I thought of when looking at it:

The markham setup of zones is awkward, going from Mount Joy to Centennial is a 3 zone trip for what really is a local transit use, I would recommend changing Markham fare zones a bit to better fit the Stouffville GO line which will serve as the transit backbone of the city, hitting essentially every major trip generator there is there.

I would add an extension of the Richmond Hill line to Bloomington, there were a couple of stations on that extension as well.

Make Richmond Hill and Barrie AD2W for the love of god, Newmarket is left in the dark in terms of transit access otherwise.

I'm very, very happy you finally got rid of the rather silly splitting of the YUS line. still really don't like your DRL alignment, but its an improvement haha.

Why bother showing the Jane BRT-lite? you should be showing a whole lot other routes if you are including it, considering it has no seperated lanes for its entire length.

My understanding is that there will also be BRT lanes on the 427.

I would run L11 down to Port Credit if it were me

I would suggest adding a B44 route to the mississauga transitway, running from Honeydale to Square One.

Whats up with the Gondola?

AD2W GO has to go to "Hamilton Waterfront" in Hamilton, the tracks can't get through to Downtown. Peak only service is all that can service downtown Hamilton.

GO service to Port Hope and Cobourg? Thats a little far IMO, and would be expensive as you would have to drop back onto the CN tracks from the CP tracks running through Bowmanville. Increased VIA service would do that job better IMO.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Innsert, neither the McCowan Subway or the Sheppard LRT serve Malvern or Centennial as proposed unless the subway goes back to the SRT alignment, or the Malvern LRT is revived.

 

[innsertnamehere]

That can be fixed with a VIVA style BRT lite running along progress and zig-zagging over to Malvern. they really aren't THAT important of destinations, especially Malvern. they certianly don't warrant multi-billion dollar subway extensions.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

That can be fixed with a VIVA style BRT lite running along progress and zig-zagging over to Malvern. they really aren't THAT important of destinations, especially Malvern. they certianly don't warrant multi-billion dollar subway extensions.

True, but people that live there won't benefit from two subways at STC. Also, UT Scarborough won't be served unless eglinton is extened or the Malvern LRT is brought back.

 

[dunkalunk]

After several weeks of working on this, I've finally updated my "master" transit map for the GTHA. The 3 biggest changes from the previous version are the adjustment of the DRL (which I've rebranded as the Scarborough-Exhibition Dufferin-Don Mills Subway, or SEDD), the conversion of the Sheppard Subway into LRT to form a single northern crosstown, and the new fare zone structure.

...

Any comments, suggestions, critiques, or pointing out of errors/omissions (because there are bound to be a few) is appreciated!

Gladly! I have a few nitpicks:

First would be to eliminate the Etobicoke North GO station and replace it with two stations that are more accessible and would ridership at Highway 27 (Rexdale) and Islington (Humberlea?). The Rexdale Station would become a major rail hub for the Western GTA with a massive amount of highway access, direct connection to the UPX spur (which I assume would be electrified at this point, and connections to Humber College (via BRT, perhaps continuing south along Brown's Line to Long Branch?).

[EDIT] On the subject of fare

I do like what you've done with the streetcar ROW extensions in the west end. One thing that confounds me though is the termination of the Bloor-Danforth subway at Honeydale instead of continuing along the rail corridor to Sherway Gardens. Comparitively, Sherway has far better highway access. By all means, a station there makes sense and Honeydale Mall is ripe for redevelopment, but I just can't see it as a logical terminus of the line.

While we're in the area and moving GO stations around, I see a lot of potential for a GO transfer station at Etobicoke City Centre and the ability for development to spring up around a transit hub in that area and in the south Kipling Lot. I'd also like to see the Mimico GO station moved to Park Lawn Road due to the possibility of a not insignificant Park and Ride facility (5 storey garage with direct ramps to the Gardiner). It would connect to half-hourly (or better) GO trains for those who would have otherwise exited the 427 at Burnhamthorpe or Dundas to park at Islington or Kipling.

You'll never get all-day GO service into Hunter Street. CP runs their freight through there and has priority. You can however run all-day GO trains to a new station built at Dundurn Plaza. You'd still have some issues with trains weaving south of the Bayview Junction, but a grade separation of the corridors was needed for a long time. In the mean time however, James Street North is a completely fine alternative given that it would accelerate the need for rapid transit in the James Street corridor.

On the subject of fare zones, there's a thread for that. [self plug to this thread]

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Gladly! I have a few nitpicks:

First would be to eliminate the Etobicoke North GO station and replace it with two stations that are more accessible and would ridership at Highway 27 (Rexdale) and Islington (Humberlea?). The Rexdale Station would become a major rail hub for the Western GTA with a massive amount of highway access, direct connection to the UPX spur (which I assume would be electrified at this point, and connections to Humber College (via BRT, perhaps continuing south along Brown's Line to Long Branch?).

[EDIT] On the subject of fare

I do like what you've done with the streetcar ROW extensions in the west end. One thing that confounds me though is the termination of the Bloor-Danforth subway at Honeydale instead of continuing along the rail corridor to Sherway Gardens. Comparitively, Sherway has far better highway access. By all means, a station there makes sense and Honeydale Mall is ripe for redevelopment, but I just can't see it as a logical terminus of the line.

While we're in the area and moving GO stations around, I see a lot of potential for a GO transfer station at Etobicoke City Centre and the ability for development to spring up around a transit hub in that area and in the south Kipling Lot. I'd also like to see the Mimico GO station moved to Park Lawn Road due to the possibility of a not insignificant Park and Ride facility (5 storey garage with direct ramps to the Gardiner). It would connect to half-hourly (or better) GO trains for those who would have otherwise exited the 427 at Burnhamthorpe or Dundas to park at Islington or Kipling.

You'll never get all-day GO service into Hunter Street. CP runs their freight through there and has priority. You can however run all-day GO trains to a new station built at Dundurn Plaza. You'd still have some issues with trains weaving south of the Bayview Junction, but a grade separation of the corridors was needed for a long time. In the mean time however, James Street North is a completely fine alternative given that it would accelerate the need for rapid transit in the James Street corridor.

On the subject of fare zones, there's a thread for that. [self plug to this thread]

Go is building a new train station at James stree in Hamilton.