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I never claimed the real figure was 80-90%. And "available" car is not defined. I don't even know how to drive, but I occasionally have a car available to use (well, be driven in), which could slot me under the choice category.
 
scarberiankhatru said:
I never claimed the real figure was 80-90%. And "available" car is not defined.
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Well, if you're about to rubbish a stat, at least make it a real one. :p However, given that you've previously been presented with the >60% stat, I'm surprised you're still regurgitating the higher numbers.

FWIW, the Portland study does separate the 67% who have a car "available" from the 10% who explicitly preferred the train.
 
scarberiankhatru said:
I never said 80+% had a car.
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That is correct. Instead, you used a vague claim of "80 - 90%" to advance your argument, even after being previously presented with a level of 65% on this very board.

Ironically that thread was the seventh link after searching for ttc "choice rider" :cool:

The same page of results comes up with a 2005 report that explicitly states 53% of riders are insured car owners. The additional percentage who choose not to have a car is debateable of course, but an additional 12% is certainly feasible.
 
I claimed 80+% were choice riders, not car owners. I am not equating "choice" with "owns a car that sits unused."

A 53% figure of people who own their own car (no sharing, no 'guaranteed' rides, etc.) is quite close to my "may not even be a majority" suggestion. The percentage above 53% who could get a car is certainly higher than 12%...it's probably more like 30%. Many of that ~30% have access to a car some or all of the time. Of course, buying and driving their own would be a financial strain for many of them, assuming they'd want to drive where they're going in the first place. The 20% or so left over are the ones who can't drive their own car and have no choice - people under 16, those too infirm to drive, those who are very poor, etc.
 
scarberiankhatru said:
A 53% figure of people who own their own car (no sharing, no 'guaranteed' rides, etc.) is quite close to my "may not even be a majority" suggestion.
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Factor in the people who choose not to have a car, and it's clear the "majority" of riders "choose" to use public transit.

I do find it amusing that your 53% + ~30% numbers take us back to the realm of 80% - 90% that you originally rubbished. I guess we know who made the original claim then ;)
 
Yes, a slight majority "choose" transit (I agree with the air quotes). I rubbished it for reasons you agree with: they don't want to buy a car, they don't want to drive on the DVP, etc. The ~30% is grouped in with drivers who own cars and choose to take the TTC. So, really, there's those with full choice, no choice, and something in between (and of the last group, it's unreasonable for many of them to drive, even though they theoretically could).
 
According to The Globe, the hike will be $126 for a pass, and $3 for cash. No indication on what tokens would be.

Hmm, that's a 15.6% increase for a Metropass, and only a 9% increase for cash. That seems backwards. Surely if they increase the pass 15.5% they should increase the cash fare something similiar ... and the tokens.
 
wholly cow! That is a huge increase to metropass users. I think they should limit it to 120 per month, cash should go to 3 and tokens to 2.50.
 
agreed. The metropass is what makes the ttc worthwhile. This will reduce off peak ridership especially on weekends.
 
Great, so assuming two rides per day for four work weeks per month, the monthly pass will cost almost exactly the same as the cash fare. I can't even articulate into words how utterly goddamn idiotic that is. In fact, I can't even bring myself to complain about how incompetent they are here because it gives me such an incredible feeling of futility.
 
The anti-Metropass rhetoric from the TTC makes it seem like they believe that they'd get more revenue from riders if they switched from a monthly pass back to tokens. They most assuredly wouldn't, however - most of the 'extra rides' Metropass holders take per months are rides they probably wouldn't take otherwise.

I know that during months when I had a Metropass, I'd jump on a streetcar to go five blocks that I would have walked otherwise.
 
doady said:
$126 for a monthly pass is crazy. I think this will backfire on the TTC.
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Are they high? I suppose when Transit City's all done built it'll be $150/month.
 
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