[A_Faulty5]

More than 9 SRT cars? Yeah I call shenanigans on that.

To be fair, they have an entire unused yard and line to store those trains. Don't get me wrong though, there is plenty of room at Greenwood to store one car trains. They have that one abandoned H-4 at Greenwood Yard that was left out at Wilson years prior. You can also see where they could of stored another car in the photo below.

 

[T3G]

I do not think that shoving one subway car out of the way, parked under the wide open sky, and that would create extra work to extricate, would make for a compelling example of preservation. As well, keeping only one car would mean that they'd be unable to move themselves under their own power for any reason whatsoever, which would mean even more work. If the general public can't easily get to it, what is the point of keeping it around?

The abandoned H4s from Wilson are not parked at Greenwood, and were carted off to scrap in November 2012. The H4s which are parked at Greenwood are either awaiting conversion to work cars, or serving as parts donors for work cars.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Edward Keenan: Fare evasion is costing the TTC millions. So why is it looking at reducing the penalties?

With TTC fare evasion now costing an estimated $140 million a year, the time seems right for a new enforcement system.

www.thestar.com

Paywall free: https://archive.is/Aoc0H

IMO the TTC wouldn't need to worry about fare evasion if it wasn't so easy to evade fares.

 

[DSC]

Edward Keenan: Fare evasion is costing the TTC millions. So why is it looking at reducing the penalties?

With TTC fare evasion now costing an estimated $140 million a year, the time seems right for a new enforcement system.

www.thestar.com

Paywall free: https://archive.is/Aoc0H

IMO the TTC wouldn't need to worry about fare evasion if it wasn't so easy to evade fares.

Well....duh. Of course, the TTC could prevent any fare evasion by restricting access to vehicles (e.g. only front door boarding and tapping on at all subways platforms) and could assign ticket inspectors to every bus or streetcar but the question is would the increased cost be covered by the fares received and would the delays in the system be a 'good thing'. Clearly, there needs to be a balance between fare inspection and fare evasion and the TTC clearly need to do more on the inspection side, though it would be really stupid to try to eliminate all fare evasion!

 

[turbanplanner]

Edward Keenan: Fare evasion is costing the TTC millions. So why is it looking at reducing the penalties?

With TTC fare evasion now costing an estimated $140 million a year, the time seems right for a new enforcement system.

www.thestar.com

Paywall free: https://archive.is/Aoc0H

IMO the TTC wouldn't need to worry about fare evasion if it wasn't so easy to evade fares.

How do you fix it on something effectively unmonitored like the streetcar? Also, just my experience but every single bus trip I take at least one person‘s card fails and even though you can use a friggin credit card that doesn’t occur to anybody

 

[evandyk]

On streetcars and buses, making it easy to fill the buses up with people at busy stops (all-door boarding, multiple tapping points, etc.) usually requires the things that make fare evasion easy. But I think doubling or tripling the number of inspectors riding the King and Queen streetcar lines would probably make a large dent in evasion. The frequency of fare checks right now is just laughable. Until recently I was riding the King car multiple times a day most days, and saw a team of inspectors every few weeks at most.

 

[evandyk]

Clearly, there needs to be a balance between fare inspection and fare evasion and the TTC clearly need to do more on the inspection side, though it would be really stupid to try to eliminate all fare evasion!

Yeah... if the streetcar fare evasion rate is really 30% (which I believe, based on personal observations) there must be some low-hanging fruit, but once you collect that, it become probably more expensive to collect more fares than to live with a certain level of fare evasion.

 

[Admiral Beez]

could assign ticket inspectors to every bus or streetcar but the question is would the increased cost be covered by the fares received and would the delays in the system be a 'good thing'.

There's apparently an $124 million spread to to use. Given the added security and safety, the paid ridership may also increase. But whatever the cost, isn't that just an investment in the safety, utility and enjoyment of our city?

How do you fix it on something effectively unmonitored like the streetcar?

You don't have to cover the whole system. Start with significant increase in roving inspectors on the College/Dundas/Queen/King streetcars between University and Sherbourne, shown below.

You fish where the fish are, and this is prime scofflaw hunting ground.

 

[T3G]

A missing piece of the fare evasion puzzle: have they changed the framework that collects the fines for fare evasion so that the money can be collected by the TTC, and not the city? Because if they haven't, I don't see why they should bother with any kind of enforcement at all, honestly.

 

[turbanplanner]

Yeah... if the streetcar fare evasion rate is really 30% (which I believe, based on personal observations) there must be some low-hanging fruit, but once you collect that, it become probably more expensive to collect more fares than to live with a certain level of fare evasion.

It's over 50% depending on the time of day!

 

[Admiral Beez]

A missing piece of the fare evasion puzzle: have they changed the framework that collects the fines for fare evasion so that the money can be collected by the TTC, and not the city? Because if they haven't, I don't see why they should bother with any kind of enforcement at all, honestly.

Do any of these fines ever get paid? There's no point in fining fare evaders who can't pay, any more than fining squatters in our parks.

 

[evandyk]

The money for the TTC is in people paying their fares, not in the fines that are collected. A visible presence encourages people who can pay to do so. Someone who is really not able to afford a TTC fare is obviously not going to afford a fine either.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Yeah... if the streetcar fare evasion rate is really 30% (which I believe, based on personal observations) there must be some low-hanging fruit, but once you collect that, it become probably more expensive to collect more fares than to live with a certain level of fare evasion.

Cost-recovery really isn't the goal for fines anyways - it is to hurt the evaders such that it becomes a deterrent (or non-deterrent, if collection of the fines is ineffective). Frankly it'd be more effective to inconvenience the violator in other ways - the current scheme has very little sting.

AoD

 

[T3G]

The money for the TTC is in people paying their fares, not in the fines that are collected. A visible presence encourages people who can pay to do so. Someone who is really not able to afford a TTC fare is obviously not going to afford a fine either.

Would the money gained by the fear factor really offset the employment costs of all those fare inspectors, though? CTV says they have no less than 110 - that is not a small amount of people to employ. If the TTC is not recovering the costs of this, I question the wisdom of having any fare inspectors at all.

Do any of these fines ever get paid? There's no point in fining fare evaders who can't pay, any more than fining squatters in our parks.

There's lots of financially well off people who also don't pay fares.

 

[evandyk]

Would the money gained by the fear factor really offset the employment costs of all those fare inspectors, though? CTV says they have no less than 110 - that is not a small amount of people to employ. If the TTC is not recovering the costs of this, I question the wisdom of having any fare inspectors at all.

I think that if 30% of people aren't paying, a few more fare inspectors would probably pay for themselves through increased compliance. Though the TTC should have a department of people who could crunch the actual numbers.