[Steve X]

You can't even compare Toronto to most other international cities.

Beijing: Way higher population, insane traffic jams. Of course people will ride the subway. They build faster cause there is money that can be recovered. Plus it's almost slavery work to build tunnels and trains. They don't stop work for a year cause someone died.
Barcelona and Madrid are in Spain. A place where tunneling is cheaper than Toronto. Probably because their soil condition is better than us. They also have lower wages than us thus it's cheaper to get work done. Wage is more than half the cost of any metro line. Half the cost goes to engineering designs itself. Building materials like TBM and tunnel liners are cheap!
Berlin: They can't even build a proper line today. Look at what they build in the last decade: Line U55 with 3 stations without a signal system. Berlin is a poor city that inherit most of the system before the war.

We should compare to more relevant cities.

NYC: They build at a much slower rate than China. Extensions slowly get built.
Montreal: No line under construction. Some proposed ideas.
Calgary: They're done with LRTs for the next little while. Just getting a new busway cause Harper chipped in. Otherwise nothing.
Vancouver: More SkyTrains next year but hardly any tunnels.

Steve Munro once wrote this: http://stevemunro.ca/2008/01/27/what-does-building-a-subway-cost/

 

[TheTigerMaster]

They can't even build a proper line today. Look at what they build in the last decade: Line U55 with 3 stations without a signal system. Berlin is a poor city that inherit most of the system before the war.

Can you elaborate on the signal system? How did they build a subway without signalling?

 

[TOareaFan]

They stop abruptly and open the doors.....at TTC stops. It's not so hard to anticipate where those might be.

- Paul

I am not defending this guy in anyway but, surely, I cannot be the only person that has witnessed (on multiple ocassions) the doors on streetcars opening between stops? Often at busy times (King after TFC matches comes to mind...but have seen others) when there is a traffic jam the operator gets "close" (I have seen it be around 100m) to a stop, catches the attention of the people at the stop and waves them over while opening the door to let people off early. I get why they do this....but to expect the car on the right side that thought he could get past before the stop to know they are going to do this is a bit of a stretch.

When the rules/guidlines/whatever are followed it is pretty easy to protect everyone's safety ....and an "early stop" does not seem to be the case here (so, again, not defending this guy) but some of the posts here are taking on the form of "the streetcar is never the one that bends the rules"....and from my own experience, I know that is not the case.

All that to say, regardless of knowing the rules....when I am on a streetcar I always check traffic when I exit and when I am driving near them I take particular care and lean to overcaution.

 

[crs1026]

I am not defending this guy in anyway but, surely, I cannot be the only person that has witnessed (on multiple ocassions) the doors on streetcars opening between stops?

True, I have seen this happen also.

Perhaps a better rule of common sense defensive driving would be - I have never seen a streetcar open its doors without stopping first. When I drive behind a streetcar, any indication that the car is coming to zero speed is reason enough to cover the brake pedal and anticipate that the doors may open.

- Paul

 

[W. K. Lis]

To clarify the rules about stopping for streetcars. From this link:

You must pass streetcars on the right unless you are driving on a one-way road.

At streetcar stops, stay at least two metres behind the rear doors where passengers are getting off or on. This rule does not apply at stops where an area has been set aside for streetcar passengers. Always pass these areas at a reasonable speed and be prepared for pedestrians to make sudden or unexpected moves.
​

This was changed from the previous requirement where it was two metres behind an open door.

See the TTC's request at this link.

Here's the legalize, from the Ontario Highway Traffic Act at this link:

166. (1) Where a person in charge of a vehicle or on a bicycle or on horseback or leading a horse on a highway overtakes a street car or a car of an electric railway, operated in or near the centre of the roadway, which is stationary for the purpose of taking on or discharging passengers, he or she shall not pass the car or approach nearer than 2 metres measured back from the rear or front entrance or exit, as the case may be, of the car on the side on which passengers are getting on or off until the passengers have got on or got safely to the side of the street, as the case may be, but this subsection does not apply where a safety zone has been set aside and designated by a by-law passed under section 9, 10 or 11 of the Municipal Act, 2001 or under section 7 or 8 of the City of Toronto Act, 2006, as the case may be. 2006, c. 32, Sched. C, s. 24 (6).

 

[Jonny5]

I've thought for a long time they need high visibility signs on the Gardiner off-ramps that remind people to stop behind open streetcar doors.
I've seen many cars with out-of province plates go past them over the years, some wondering why everyone was getting angry.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I've thought for a long time they need high visibility signs on the Gardiner off-ramps that remind people to stop behind open streetcar doors.
I've seen many cars with out-of province plates go past them over the years, some wondering why everyone was getting angry.

Like the signs for NO RIGHT TURN ON RED on the Island of Montréal.

 

[nfitz]

I am not defending this guy in anyway but, surely, I cannot be the only person that has witnessed (on multiple ocassions) the doors on streetcars opening between stops?

I have seen this, but normally when traffic has come to a complete stop and/or a vehicle has broken down. Which means there wouldn't be someone speeding down the right-hand side.

And wasn't this case AT a stop - so I don't see the relevance of this.

Also, there's nothing in the law, about the requirement to stop being at a stop.

 

[nfitz]

Like the signs for NO RIGHT TURN ON RED on the Island of Montréal.

They do that though, so that they don't have to place signs at every single traffic light. If they were really concerned about safety, they'd do both.

 

[TOareaFan]

I have seen this, but normally when traffic has come to a complete stop and/or a vehicle has broken down. Which means there wouldn't be someone speeding down the right-hand side.

As I mentioned, I see it after TFC matches......and it WB on King it is often the left lane (with the streetcar lane) that is backed up to Jameson as people use that lane to get back down to the Gardiner and Lakeshore....often times the right lane is quite open......and yes, often the streetcar stops in traffic and the operator makes the decision to wave people to an "early stop" and opens the door. I understand why the operator does this....but in doing so it is creating an abnormal/unexpected situation for drivers and streetcar users.

And wasn't this case AT a stop - so I don't see the relevance of this.

Also, there's nothing in the law, about the requirement to stop being at a stop.

I wrote why I was posting this....it has no relevance to the situation and does not excuse the guy at all......and there may be no requirement for stops to be at stops....but there were a couple of posts above it that suggested they always were at stops and drivers should be aware of that....as you acknowledge, and I and others have observed, that is not always the case.

 

[Jonny5]

I wrote why I was posting this....it has no relevance to the situation and does not excuse the guy at all......and there may be no requirement for stops to be at stops....but there were a couple of posts above it that suggested they always were at stops and drivers should be aware of that....as you acknowledge, and I and others have observed, that is not always the case.

Interestingly streetcars don't participate in the request stop program because they say it's unsafe to let someone out somewhere that is not a normal signed stop.

 

[TOareaFan]

Interestingly streetcars don't participate in the request stop program because they say it's unsafe to let someone out somewhere that is not a normal signed stop.

I don't think they are requested stops....I think (in the specific example I noted) they are stopped in a line of traffic that has a left turner at the front of it....and since they are already stopped the operator makes a decision to board unboard during this "unscheduled" stop in the hopes that when traffic starts to move again they have already served the stop ahead and can keep going. It is (IMO) a pretty smart move....but I was just pointing out that it is the opposite to what other people pointed out above my first post that the streetcar stops are always at posted/signed transit stops....it is not always the case.

 

[Jonny5]

I don't think they are requested stops....I think (in the specific example I noted) they are stopped in a line of traffic that has a left turner at the front of it....and since they are already stopped the operator makes a decision to board unboard during this "unscheduled" stop in the hopes that when traffic starts to move again they have already served the stop ahead and can keep going. It is (IMO) a pretty smart move....but I was just pointing out that it is the opposite to what other people pointed out above my first post that the streetcar stops are always at posted/signed transit stops....it is not always the case.

This is why I posted about request stop. I think operators who let people out between stops for whatever reason are technically violating policy, and could be disciplined for it.

 

[TOareaFan]

This is why I posted about request stop. I think operators who let people out between stops for whatever reason are technically violating policy, and could be disciplined for it.

yeah, maybe....but it is a bit of dammed if you do dammed if you don't......if it takes, say, 15 minutes to get to the stop...how long before somebody starts tweeting "i could see the stop...I wanted off...but the stupid driver insisted that we wait until we rolled the last 100 metres"....it's a tough spot....but, again, my only point (that has been confirmed by a few people here) is that it is not a 100% certainty that streetcars only stop and open their doors at stops.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Article on
How the TTC keeps tiny delays from turning into giant transit disasters
at this link.

On this particular morning, the first person in Transit Control who hears about a passenger alarm is Kelly Gray, who manages communications to and from subway trains. The driver of the train alerts Gray over a radio link. She punches the information into her computer, which triggers a goofy “uh-oh” sound effect that the entire Transit Control staff can hear. (There are other sounds for other types of emergencies, like ominous beeping for a power failure.) Once Gray has logged the alarm, all action taken by TTC staff is recorded in her electronic file.

What happened before they had the emergency passenger alarms on the subway? Would the person try to get off the car at the next station and get attention of the guard or go upstairs to the booth? Was there less delays because there were less false alarms?