TransitBart
Senior Member
Here is the Toronto Star and Ed Keenan’s take on this.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/12/12/a-fond-farewell-to-torontos-trolleys.html
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- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
Here is the Toronto Star and Ed Keenan’s take on this.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/12/12/a-fond-farewell-to-torontos-trolleys.html
Amare
Senior Member
^Beat me to the punch. That's an excellent article which pretty much sums up the pros and cons of both the C/ALRV and the Flexities.
Personally i'll miss the older streetcars due to the view and the standing room. The Flexities irritate me in the sense that unless it is near empty, there is no way to feel comfortable sitting down. That is, at least for someone over 6 feet tall.
Personally i'll miss the older streetcars due to the view and the standing room. The Flexities irritate me in the sense that unless it is near empty, there is no way to feel comfortable sitting down. That is, at least for someone over 6 feet tall.
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Richard White
Senior Member
I was on the first ride back in 2013 for media from Hillcrest to Bathurst Station and back. You could not move in that car, nor could you get up from the seats. I recall trying to see the front of the car from the midsection and failing miserably due to poor sightlines.
Funfact: I won a contest to get on that ride!
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Are there plans to preserve any of the ALRVs, or is it just one or two CRLVs that we can expect to be saved?
Amare
Senior Member
The original plan as per Andy Byford was to preserve 1-2 CLRVs and 1 ALRV, but these plans may be changed by whoever his successor is.
smallspy
Senior Member
Hard to maintain? Sure.
Impossible? Nope.
People a lot smarter than I - and who are affiliated with the museum - are not concerned with the arrival of CLRVs at the museum because they know that they already have a plan in place for making sure that they are able to keep them running there. This includes things like getting spare parts from the TTC and even electrical circuit diagrams for each of the multitude of control boards onboard each one.
I'm involved with the restoration of a similar vintage piece of rolling stock - a Bombardier LRC locomotive - which in theory suffers from many of the same quibbles as the CLRVs. And you know what, through careful planning and knowing the right people, we're not concerned about keeping it going over the long run as we are well prepared for it. We have lots of extra control boards, and we've found circuit diagrams for virtually all of them. In fact, the things that are giving us trouble with the loco aren't even the electronics that are supposed to be so delicate.
Keep in mind too, that running a car in service at a museum is way, way less strenuous than daily service at a transit agency like the TTC. The MTBF for a CLRV may be 5,000kms, but it may take a car at the museum 5 years or more to reach that kind of mileage.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
299 bloor call control.
Senior Member
The temporary terminal will only be utilized for approximately 6 months to dig the connection tunnel from the Kennedy Station subway concourse to the LRT station. Once complete, all buses will return into the station.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Will the TTC be retaining any, or are these all headed to a museum? I'm mostly interested in knowing if we'll see the CLRVs and ALRVs running on the Harbourfront line, like we do with the PCCs in the summer.
smallspy
Senior Member
Way more than 2 cars will be saved.
The TTC itself will be looking to keep at least 2 and possibly as many as 4 cars.
Halton County will get a bunch.
And then from there, a good number of museums have asked to have up to 3 cars donated. These include Exporail, Seashore and Rockhill, and possibly others. And apparently San Francisco wants a bunch of cars to run on their E and F lines.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
From the Star:
Fare evasion could be costing TTC almost $50 million per year, internal report suggests
Surprise, surprise. What I find super interesting is how the veracity of that particular figure is challenged, but not that $25M "industry standard".
AoD
Fare evasion could be costing TTC almost $50 million per year, internal report suggests
Surprise, surprise. What I find super interesting is how the veracity of that particular figure is challenged, but not that $25M "industry standard".
AoD
crs1026
Superstar
It's not a good time to be measuring this since Presto is only half implemented and the rules of when to show a fare are inconsistent. When we get to the point where every entry onto a vehicle requires a tap-on with similar media, there may be more of a 'fear factor' around sliding onto a vehicle without tapping on.
My impression of fare inspection on the streetcar network is not positive. The inspectors seem to like to work in a team of 4-6 which means they are not spread out very far. They also hang out in predictable locations (such as the subway platforms). They stand around a lot. IMHO TTC should be pushing them out onto the system more and inspecting all along all routes.
To be honest, I can't think of a transit operator that handles POP well. I have rarely been challenged anywhere. I would actually point to GO transit for doing much better at this - one sees fare inspectors on all routes, at all times of day. The deterrence level (ie the average rider's belief that they may be inspected on their trip) is likely higher on GO.
I have never deliberately evaded a fare, (although I have certainly enjoyed the benefits of the TTC's Presto transfer rules, which seem to be more of a lottery than a transfer structure) but I do regularly find myself standing at the car stop, admiting to myself that there is no likelihood that I will be inspected, and wondering if I could get away with not paying. On a cost benefit basis, the occasional fine may actually be cheaper. The embarrasment of getting nicked in public is the main reason I tap on. I know many people who would not have the same reservation.
- Paul
My impression of fare inspection on the streetcar network is not positive. The inspectors seem to like to work in a team of 4-6 which means they are not spread out very far. They also hang out in predictable locations (such as the subway platforms). They stand around a lot. IMHO TTC should be pushing them out onto the system more and inspecting all along all routes.
To be honest, I can't think of a transit operator that handles POP well. I have rarely been challenged anywhere. I would actually point to GO transit for doing much better at this - one sees fare inspectors on all routes, at all times of day. The deterrence level (ie the average rider's belief that they may be inspected on their trip) is likely higher on GO.
I have never deliberately evaded a fare, (although I have certainly enjoyed the benefits of the TTC's Presto transfer rules, which seem to be more of a lottery than a transfer structure) but I do regularly find myself standing at the car stop, admiting to myself that there is no likelihood that I will be inspected, and wondering if I could get away with not paying. On a cost benefit basis, the occasional fine may actually be cheaper. The embarrasment of getting nicked in public is the main reason I tap on. I know many people who would not have the same reservation.
- Paul
amnesiajune
Senior Member
That's because there's someone roaming around each Go Train anyways, so they might as well be checking tickets. I believe that each train has three staff - two actually operate the train and one checks tickets and assists passengers, especially those who are handicapped.
At least in my experience, you're less likely to be checked if you're at one of the ends of the train, because handicapped passengers are sent to the middle of the train.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
The probability of getting checked is rather low, and probably even lower for the TTC - it makes for an ineffective deterrent for someone who doesn't ride frequently enough for the odds to add up. Also there are various shades of fare evasion - avoidance of full fare vs. the rush hour dump all the nickles and dimes crowd.
AoD
AoD
I've been checked on the TTC about 5% of the time I use it (streetcar during the ride as well as at Union) and on GO about 30% of the time. My husband uses GO more than I do and has only been checked once -- he tends to use it at rush hour times, but I don't. Perhaps it's just too difficult during rush hour with packed trains?
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
I take the GO daily during the evening rush, and have done so for the past few years. I can count the number of times I've been checked with one hand. Probably just once or twice - and yeah, it will be difficult for the fare inspectors to go from one end to another when the aisles are occupied.
But honestly, considering the number of platform ingress/egress points, there shouldn't be any reason against some kind of fare gate system for GO trains.
AoD