[denfromoakvillemilton]

The thing is that parts of the speculated Sheppard Subway are projected to only carry 4,000 pphpd. That is ridiculously low. A BRT could easily move that many people. Sheppard is getting an LRT, which is already way more than enough capacity.

190 rocket is not BRT? I thought it was

If capacity/demand were the governing factors in decisions....why is the BD being extended instead of an LRT? I am no expert but from what I read the RT could be replaced by either an upgraded RT or by LRT much cheaper and easily handle the projected demand/ridership.

Because politics. We just decided to extend the BD as subway because Scarborough residents whined loud enough. But you are right about the capacity, but the reason is politics, specifically vote buying.

 

[RPM]

the problem with sheppard is it is a stump. which nevertheless spurred a billion dollars in development. How much more dense/ridership would there be if it was connect to the BD line is the question in my mind... If developers knew a subway was going to come to the area, would that not be a great catalyst for higher density building ? with cheaper pricing than most areas will also draw people to these developments as well. How many more buildings will be squeezed into the SCC once the subway comes ? scarb is under-developed for a reason, no one wants to go from bus to srt to subway to streetcar or bus to go somewhere unless it is as a last option. I'm anxious to see what kind of developments occur when shovels hit the ground on the BD extension.

 

[JayBeeGooner]

190 rocket is not BRT? I thought it was

Considering how broad the definition of BRT is, you can call it BRT.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Considering how broad the definition of BRT is, you can call it BRT.

I was thinking that. 190 is brt. It comes every 10 minutes or so?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

190 rocket is not BRT? I thought it was.

Transit definitions are very vague. But by BRT, I refer to busses, operating in fully protected lanes, with stations and signal priority. Basically the Crosstown LRT with busses instead of LRVs

 

[TheTigerMaster]

If capacity/demand were the governing factors in decisions....why is the BD being extended instead of an LRT? I am no expert but from what I read the RT could be replaced by either an upgraded RT or by LRT much cheaper and easily handle the projected demand/ridership.

Because politics. Everyone who knows about transit agrees the SRT was the superior plan.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

the problem with sheppard is it is a stump. which nevertheless spurred a billion dollars in development. How much more dense/ridership would there be if it was connect to the BD line is the question in my mind... If developers knew a subway was going to come to the area, would that not be a great catalyst for higher density building ? with cheaper pricing than most areas will also draw people to these developments as well. How many more buildings will be squeezed into the SCC once the subway comes ? scarb is under-developed for a reason, no one wants to go from bus to srt to subway to streetcar or bus to go somewhere unless it is as a last option. I'm anxious to see what kind of developments occur when shovels hit the ground on the BD extension.

Building because of potential development has never been a good idea. It's politically savvy to say that, but in reality it could take a lifetime for that development to come.

Anyways as of right now the Sheppard Subway's ridership is more than low enough for it to have been an LRT. And it will be that way for the forseeable future. And of course the exact same development would have been attracted by an LRT. In fact, if the Sheppard Subway was an LRT it may have attracted even more development since LRTs allow for far more stations than subways.

 

[TOareaFan]

Because politics. Everyone who knows about transit agrees the SRT was the superior plan.

And politics will be a factor in all future transit planning as well.

Even the story in the Star yesterday where ML said they would get going on the Sheppard and Finch LRTs (and maybe even able to build them faster) contained a paragraph where a notable politician basically said the LRTs would not be built because they would be converted to subways.

We need to stop trying to fool ourselves that transit needs have anything to do with transit built...it is who has the strongest, loudest politicians.....as we try to eliminate bullying from all aspects of life...we encourage in the transit arena!

 

[TheTigerMaster]

And politics will be a factor in all future transit planning as well.

Even the story in the Star yesterday where ML said they would get going on the Sheppard and Finch LRTs (and maybe even able to build them faster) contained a paragraph where a notable politician basically said the LRTs would not be built because they would be converted to subways.

We need to stop trying to fool ourselves that transit needs have anything to do with transit built...it is who has the strongest, loudest politicians.....as we try to eliminate bullying from all aspects of life...we encourage in the transit arena!

Bingo. Its the frustrating truth. Nobody cares about eveixence based planning.

But I'm not so sure that the Sheppard LRT won't be built. Once Ford is out of office next year (he probably will be), I have a feeling that we'll have this subway rhetoric die down.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Building because of potential development has never been a good idea. It's politically savvy to say that, but in reality it could take a lifetime for that development to come.

Anyways as of right now the Sheppard Subway's ridership is more than low enough for it to have been an LRT. And it will be that way for the forseeable future. And of course the exact same development would have been attracted by an LRT. In fact, if the Sheppard Subway was an LRT it may have attracted even more development since LRTs allow for far more stations than subways.

More stations would make it slower right?

Bingo. Its the frustrating truth. Nobody cares about eveixence based planning.

But I'm not so sure that the Sheppard LRT won't be built. Once Ford is out of office next year (he probably will be), I have a feeling that we'll have this subway rhetoric die down.

It will die down regardless. They got their subway. Now KIM.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

More stations would make it slower right?

Of course. But speed isn't everything. I'd much rather have a 25 kph LRT with stations every 700 meters (thats similar to the Bloor-Danforth) than a 50 kph subway with stations more than a kilometre apart. That way accessibility is greatly improved and we may see redevelopment along the whole street (something like the retail along Bloor/Danforth), rather than only where there are concession streets and stations.

And of course the closer spaced stations are, the more ridership is generated.

 

[TOareaFan]

More stations would make it slower right?



It will die down regardless. They got their subway. Now KIM.

really....you think it will just die down now that SRT is replaced by a subway:

Mayor Rob Ford told city council Tuesday that Sheppard and Finch would be his next targets for subways rather than LRTs. The province has agreed to give the $1.48 billion it budgeted for Scarborough transit to the subway.

 

[Mr.Tang]

Sure - but the slower it goes and the more stops it makes the longer it takes to get where you need to go...and then you just drive instead.

 

[Dan416]

That's why I take GO downtown rather than TTC, even though TTC is cheaper. It's just too slow. There's too many stops on the BD line.

 

[innsertnamehere]

You take it from Kennedy? Different folks different strokes.. The GO line only saves around 10minutes from there, which can easily be lost by the extra walking distance once you get downtown.