[GraphicMatt]

The federal government are the ones (potentially) being dicks in this situation, though there appears to be a serious oversight on our mayor's part as well.

As I understand it, several years back, the feds decided to come on board and fund the Sheppard East LRT in partnership with the province. After Ford was elected, he demanded that project be cancelled. The project complied and is now putting their Sheppard money toward the all-underground Eglinton project.

But the federal money -- which apparently nobody had really thought about until now -- is still tied up in the original terms of the deal, which appears contingent on two things: 1) That the money be spent on a project in the Sheppard corridor prior to 2014; and 2) That the money be part of a larger pool of money, with the greater sum coming from the provincial government.

So, yeah, Ford could end up costing us $300 million in transit money if he's not careful.

You'd think the feds would be willing to change the framework of the original agreement and allow City Hall to direct their committed funds toward the Sheppard subway project. But, then again, they may be savvy enough to realize it'll do them no favours to spend $300 million on what is likely to amount to a great big pile of nothing.

 

[rbt]

When you control the purse strings you can do a lot....he tells them to come up with a number...tells them not to worry if they are a few mill off...no one will know anyway...and he comes out and says "in our best estimate, the cost of the Eglinton line will be such that it allows us to commit $650 million to Sheppard"....the only industry that matters over the next 49 days is politics....and I am sure that is why Rob Ford asked for the meeting with the Prem yesterday.....start the photo op/media scrum season off with his pet project front and centre.

If Toronto was responsible for cost overruns the Prem won't have a problem with that logic either.

Problem is we want the province to both advance us the buffer for Sheppard and be responsible for Eglinton cost overruns.

 

[rbt]

And part of that deal was the provision that if it were available $650 million would transfer to Sheppard.....so the Prem would just have to commit to that earlier than planned.

Sure, and when Eglinton turns out to cost $8.5B instead of $7.45B who is going to cover the funding gap?

 

[nfitz]

So, yeah, Ford could end up costing us $300 million in transit money if he's not careful.

More than that, as Ontario could ask for City of Toronto to pay the 1/3 of the Sheppard grade separation that is currently under construction, that was coming out of the $333 million.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Yes, plus the unannounced cancellation fees that Toronto is still on the hook for, as per the memo released back in March. It seems likely at this point that this mayor will cost us more in wasted capital funds than he'll save with his gravy-cuts.

 

[gweed123]

The federal government are the ones (potentially) being dicks in this situation, though there appears to be a serious oversight on our mayor's part as well.

As I understand it, several years back, the feds decided to come on board and fund the Sheppard East LRT in partnership with the province. After Ford was elected, he demanded that project be cancelled. The project complied and is now putting their Sheppard money toward the all-underground Eglinton project.

But the federal money -- which apparently nobody had really thought about until now -- is still tied up in the original terms of the deal, which appears contingent on two things: 1) That the money be spent on a project in the Sheppard corridor prior to 2014; and 2) That the money be part of a larger pool of money, with the greater sum coming from the provincial government.

So, yeah, Ford could end up costing us $300 million in transit money if he's not careful.

You'd think the feds would be willing to change the framework of the original agreement and allow City Hall to direct their committed funds toward the Sheppard subway project. But, then again, they may be savvy enough to realize it'll do them no favours to spend $300 million on what is likely to amount to a great big pile of nothing.

$330 million could build you a whole whack of BRT on Sheppard, and it's the only type of transit project that could actually be completed by 2014, considering it's just a road widening and some nicer bus shelters on the side of the road. Sheppard was being widened for the SELRT anyway, so we know that are property expropriation has already taken place, and that the corridor is a suitable width for widening. From what I understand, road widening projects can be turned around pretty quickly, especially if the Province, not wanting to see the Federal money go to waste, put provincial roadway engineers on the project.

 

[BMO]

I kind of feel like the westward subway station is something people want because it'd make the subway map look more symmetrical. For it to actually have a network impact, you'd have to encourage southbound riders on the Yonge line to switch trains at Yonge-Sheppard, travel west to Downsview, then change trains again and proceed southbound on University. I don't see a lot of people doing that, even if it would be to their benefit.

You'd also get some southbound riders from the Sheppard line transferring at Downsview instead of Sheppard-Yonge, but are there enough such riders to really make a difference? I'd wager that congestion on Yonge comes from the north, not from Sheppard.

See the way I see it. I work on the University line (queen's park station), but I'll usually just stay on the subway until college, because it's too much of a hassle to transfer at bloor (too many people to hard to get off and on the subway). If there was a subway connection between sheppard and downsview i'm confident I would take that across. This ofcourse coming from someone who starts their journey north of steeles. I'd imagine people would transfer over from the east as well.

it would spare me the huge amount of people and congestion on the yonge line.

 

[TOareaFan]

Sure, and when Eglinton turns out to cost $8.5B instead of $7.45B who is going to cover the funding gap?

They would worry about that when/if it came up....Mr Premier's #1 job right now is to get re-elected.....not worry about potential funding gaps on a project years away. Facilitating Toronto getting sheppard funded/done by agreeing to shift $650 million IF the feds commit money and IF the city can somehow raise the rest of the money makes nice with the city....there is no guarantee, even, that it ever gets built and the $650 million ever actually gets transferred.

To quote myself "the only industry that matters over the next 49 days is politics"...not accounting.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Before the Ford mayoralty, there were two opinions about extending Sheppard as a subway:

1. People who opposed it.
2. People who supported it.

Now that Ford is sticking his foot in his mouth over this, there are 3 opinions about extending the Sheppard subway:

1. People who oppose it
2. People who support it
3. People who supported it in the past, but are willing to see it die if it means that Rob Ford implodes.

My guess is that group 3 has stolen a lot of thunder from group 2. Ironically, Ford may have condemned the Sheppard subway forever.

 

[nfitz]

Mr Premier's #1 job right now is to get re-elected....

And if he's worried about outer 416 ridings, then that means he's already lost 905, and he's not getting re-elected.

He'll gain more votes outside of Toronto from telling Ford where to go, than he will by bending over.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Note to the Ford brothers: reduce the cost of Sheppard subway by going above ground. To save on the width, use the same width as the Montréal Metro cars. Widen the roadway and use the center medium that would be created on Sheppard, maybe going under or over the intersections as needed.

Oh, by the way, the Montréal Metro cars are the same width as the light rail vehicles, so you could call it a Light Rail Line and sneak it in that way. But, that might be a bright idea, so it wouldn't be done. Could have been used as well on Eglinton to reduce costs, but oh well.

 

[Marcanadian]

What are the chances that Ford throws up his hands and asks the Premier to reallocate some of the funds from the Eglinton Crosstown to the Sheppard extension? I think the PC's would be on board with doing that should they get in.

 

[nfitz]

What are the chances that Ford throws up his hands and asks the Premier to reallocate some of the funds from the Eglinton Crosstown to the Sheppard extension? I think the PC's would be on board with doing that should they get in.

I'd put it somewhere over 100%. He's pretty much already done this ... and presumably there was city pressure already to shortern the line from Sheppard back to McCowan.

 

[rbt]

And if he's worried about outer 416 ridings, then that means he's already lost 905, and he's not getting re-elected.

He'll gain more votes outside of Toronto from telling Ford where to go, than he will by bending over.

Yup. To get Toronto that $650M early, they also need to get KW and Mississauga LRT funding in place.

Ford can get roughly $3B in Sheppard funding tomorrow by announcing Eglinton's Eastern component will be above ground as per the original plan.

 

[M II A II R II K]

For new development on Sheppard the TTC can be awarded land for free and developers would forever have to pay the lease to the TTC but are free to build what they want on the land itself.