JSF-1
Active Member
New video up, this one on the St.Clair Streetcar.
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- Thread starter wolfewood
- Start date
dkt
New Member
Don't even have to go that far, King Street in Kitchener and Waterloo was narrowed to 1 lane in each direction from 2 to accommodate ION light rail. Personally I would rather ride a streetcar where I only have to hop across one lane of traffic to get to the platform, rather than twoYet other non-North American countries use tram right-of-ways or tramways, and have only ONE traffic lane for the automobiles. We could do the same, IF we gave a higher priority to public transit instead of the single-occupant automobile.
From link.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
As mentioned in the video, the city refuses to give priority to public transit in general. With St. Clair (and Spadina and The Queenswy), priority is given to single-occupant motor vehicles turning left ahead of the 100+ passenger on board the streetcars trying to cross intersections trying to get to the farside platforms. The NIMBYs also refused to remove the Vaughan streetcar stops on St. Clair, being only one block from the Bathurst Street stops.
CapitalSeven
Senior Member
I thought the issue was that several of the lines have rudimentary signal priority, but it is either not very effective or broken and not being fixed. Does anyone have a solid view of the reality?
max
Active Member
Both can be true. I recall the revenue debut of the Flexities and the first car to leave the tunnel from Spadina station got to a red light at its first intersection, Sussex. It should be trivial to ass a sensor on the ramp that can detect a car leaving the station and just give transit a green there, but there doesn't seem to be any will to create those kinds of solutions when you can just pad schedules
I've often though this should be the case, I've driven in places in the US where it's actually the norm for the straight through traffic to get the priority at the start of the cycle and for left turns to happen at the end. Clearly the signal technology exists and somehow drivers in those places have adapted.
Sunnyside
Active Member
I suppose part of the challenge is the coverage of the streetcar network here. Most cities in NA have just a line or two, and don’t really impact the city as a whole. Meanwhile, Toronto has largely kept the entire streetcar network (where it counts, anyway). Every arterial to access downtown would basically become much more difficult to use for drivers. While European cities could get away with that, Toronto will struggle. It’s tendancy to use/reflect American standards and practices while holding loosely European sensibilities (compared to the US) puts us in a bind. Transit use is very high, but we will always ask the automobile question, which unfortunately keeps us from doing anything dramatic.
Walter always calls this “planning for the automobile first” but really any question that involves transit priority measures in the core is directly pitted against automobiles, and is going to have an unsavoury answer. Practically speaking, politicians and planners cannot tune out those voices, and they have little appetite to try to crack what is still a very tough problem of prioritizing transit. All of this is made worse when we consider how lethargic Toronto/the TTC can be general, and worse still, there are no Canadian counterparts that chose to bite a bullet this big and prioritize the entire surface network in their cores.
The solution likely requires a wholesale revision of the old city street network to best allocate car movements around new streetcar ROWs and/or priority measures to an extent it seems only the province could get away with nowadays.
adys123
Active Member
I agree with the analysis here that the American influence is a big factor for how we do things. The issue also stems from the fact that neighbouring communities have still continued to build that car-centric culture. The hardest challenge is getting ordinary people to understand that continuing to focus on bandaids (like adding more road capacity) will only increase traffic congestion (which is a huge concern for many). I think many people also struggle with understanding that making alternative transportation options more viable will make each of the options more comfortable. The people who really need to drive will get to their destinations faster and safer.
Sunnyside
Active Member
Yes, great read on the situation. In an idealistic future, we may have a lull period where region-wide traffic isn't as bad with the transit investments being made, and some improvements can be made. As road users become a smaller and smaller share of the population, transit upgrades will become more palatable. Anecdotally, I think a lot of people are realizing the merit of alternative transportation with the fleets of scooters and e-bikes deployed recently. Lots of new users, many of which never use transit or bike anywhere. Totally new niche that people actually enjoy.
As well, IMO, it won't come down as much to maintaining current road access in the old city but rather preserving any access at all- it feels like any broad improvements will have a hard time balancing these two priorities. We may be able to squeeze more out of the auto-oriented institutions if transit improvements give noticeable improvements to drivers as well.
As a whole, prioritizing the streetcar network in any capacity might require reaching a breaking point on the inside or a need from higher levels of government/operations (ie, Metrolinx) to improve it. It's not something the city alone can do in 2023; it is something only the province could, IMO, and must want, to do. This pressure may materialize, either through Ford-style strongarming or Liberal municipal re-prioritization.
Allandale25
Senior Member
Allandale25
Senior Member
Broadview Station Loop Expansion Deferred
The planned expansion of Broadview Station Loop to allow two streetcars to occupy the 505 Dundas loading bay at a time has been deferred to an unspecified later date. At the TTC Board meeting on Ju…
stevemunro.ca
Amare
Senior Member
Great stuff, now as per usual Toronto standards we wont see this project built and completed until at least ~2030.Broadview Station Loop Expansion Deferred
The planned expansion of Broadview Station Loop to allow two streetcars to occupy the 505 Dundas loading bay at a time has been deferred to an unspecified later date. At the TTC Board meeting on Ju…
Now I really want to know what "feedback" the neighboorhood had about this that's caused this deferral.
Voltz
Senior Member
Loss of parking spaces Green P lot I'm guessing.
DSC
Superstar
Yes, totally bizarre! This has been discussed for years and the contract has actually been awarded. I guess that car owners complained and the City, as usual, said "Yes, sir"! Sad!
smallspy
Senior Member
My understanding is that the local councillor squawked about the loss of approximately 5 parking spots at the lot, pushed it to council, and they forced the delay on the TTC.
Dan
Towered
Superstar
Nothing to see here - it's just Toronto being true to itself.