[ByeByeBaby]

As one of the people here old enough to remember the days when there were no cars, I prefer the way it is now. The problem in the past was after hours, Stephen Ave was a dead zone. The cars after hours keep the restaurants and thus the mall, active.

Surely you remember then that when Stephen Ave had no cars there were a lot fewer people living within walking distance; in 1966 the 6 census tracts that include part of downtown or the Beltline had 26,640 residents; the most recent civic census is 52,741. Not to mention the societal trends that have shifted over this time; a lot more people who walk, a lot more people who dine out. In 1996, about 36,000 people walked or biked into the downtown per day; now it's 87,000. And the total number of people going downtown without a car has gone from 153,000 to 312,000.

I've been walking on part of Stephen Ave for almost 20 years, and back then it was definitely a lot quieter than it is today. Maybe it's because there's twenty vehicles allowed to park per block, or maybe -- just maybe -- it's the hundred and fifty thousand more people downtown without a car. Having seen more than twenty people on a block, I tend to think it's the latter.

 

[JonnyCanuck]

Looks like Trico is moving forward with this. There will be 5 buildings in total with the first 3 buildings completed by summer of 2021. These will be purpose rental and the project is named Kingsland, for now.

Driving past this location I noticed construction is well underway now. Perhaps we should have project thread for this. The official project name is Kingsland Junction.

Kingsland Junction By Trico Communities

With a focus on connectivity, total health and wellness and the introduction of full spectrum housing, Kingsland Junction offers choices for everyone.

resources.tricohomes.com

 

[Cowtown]

Surely you remember then that when Stephen Ave had no cars there were a lot fewer people living within walking distance; in 1966 the 6 census tracts that include part of downtown or the Beltline had 26,640 residents; the most recent civic census is 52,741. Not to mention the societal trends that have shifted over this time; a lot more people who walk, a lot more people who dine out. In 1996, about 36,000 people walked or biked into the downtown per day; now it's 87,000. And the total number of people going downtown without a car has gone from 153,000 to 312,000.

I've been walking on part of Stephen Ave for almost 20 years, and back then it was definitely a lot quieter than it is today. Maybe it's because there's twenty vehicles allowed to park per block, or maybe -- just maybe -- it's the hundred and fifty thousand more people downtown without a car. Having seen more than twenty people on a block, I tend to think it's the latter.

I don't remember back to 1966, I wasn't quite born yet, and if I was I',m not sure my memory would be good enough to remember. I was thinking more around the late 80's before vehicle traffic was allowed through. I always remember Stephen Ave as bustling during the day, but being terrible after hours.

Part of the renaissance is due to increased population, and lifestyle changes but I remember that the resto boom along Stephen Ave happened right after it was opened to traffic, it happened almost overnight. I firmly believe opening it to traffic was needed to get the businesses going after hours. Is it needed now? Maybe not, but does it hurt having it open to traffic? I think we still need it to be a bit busier before closing off vehicles.

 

[CBBarnett]

I don't remember back to 1966, I wasn't quite born yet, and if I was I',m not sure my memory would be good enough to remember. I was thinking more around the late 80's before vehicle traffic was allowed through. I always remember Stephen Ave as bustling during the day, but being terrible after hours.

Part of the renaissance is due to increased population, and lifestyle changes but I remember that the resto boom along Stephen Ave happened right after it was opened to traffic, it happened almost overnight. I firmly believe opening it to traffic was needed to get the businesses going after hours. Is it needed now? Maybe not, but does it hurt having it open to traffic? I think we still need it to be a bit busier before closing off vehicles.

It would be nice if we applied this logic the other way - most retail streets in the city centre are less reliant on personal vehicles than they ever have been (although they are still important in some places of course). We should be scrapping back a lane or two from most corridors to support the expanded residents, pedestrian, scooters and cyclists.

This discussion around Stephen Ave is missing the point - car-free or car-lite street will probably be successful on Stephen if designed properly given the growth in residents and pedestrians in the area. But that's business as usual, that's what we have already. The real opportunity is on all the other streets that are terrible pedestrian experiences, are seeing the same growth in residents and pedestrians but are stuck with terrible, incoherent and complete car-centric urban design.

 

[Mountain Man]

Downtown has reached a point where Stephen Ave would survive as a purely pedestrian mall, you can't even come close to parking on Stephen Ave already, unless you get there right at 6, and it's still not guaranteed lol.

Either way, I'm super curious what they come up with, the road doesn't seem outdated or anything to me, just in need of some TLC. Most urban designs the city has come up with in recent years have been fairly well done, lets see if they can keep that going. This is Calgary's most important street, better not screw it up lol.

 

[JonnyCanuck]

That section of Stephen Ave, Macleod Tr to 3rd St SW, has the highest concentration of heritage buildings in the city. Unfortunately, there are few other streets in downtown that can be replicated as a pedestrian experience. Virtually everywhere else are blocks of sterile office buildings, a few courtyards and uninteresting storefronts. It would be pointless to waste a lot of time and money trying to create an experience in other parts of downtown.
Whether vehicular traffic continues down 8th Ave, I think will depend on the final design recommendations for both Olympic Plaza and Stephen Ave. I betting it will be more pedestrian focused and less vehicular.

p.s When we talk about cars on Stephen Ave, we seem to forget the LRT line runs parallel, only one block north. The city should also be focused on increasing ridership, after business hours, in conjunction with the 21st century makeover experience.

 

[darwink]

Downtown has reached a point where Stephen Ave would survive as a purely pedestrian mall, you can't even come close to parking on Stephen Ave already, unless you get there right at 6, and it's still not guaranteed lol.

Either way, I'm super curious what they come up with, the road doesn't seem outdated or anything to me, just in need of some TLC. Most urban designs the city has come up with in recent years have been fairly well done, lets see if they can keep that going. This is Calgary's most important street, better not screw it up lol.

Removing parking, just having a few ride share/taxi lay-bys could get it down to one lane plus bike lanes for the most part.

 

[retrofiturbanism]

Might be controversial to say this, but we shouldn't care whether people who drive to Stephen Avenue are accommodated or not. To be honest, they are not the market for night time activity, and make up a ridiculously small percentage of the people who use the street. Same thing with 17th avenue. Let's stop trying to accommodate a bunch of suburbanites who complain about not being able to park or whatever, and actually focus on the people who are more likely to patronize this area (hipsters and yuppies who live downtown, or use taxis or ubers to get to those destinations). Sometimes I feel like our strategy for urbanism in this city is akin to Axe Body Spray trying to figure out how to tap the 70+ year old market. Or Saje trying to figure out how to get teenage males into essential oils. Maybe you are looking at the wrong market.

 

[UrbanWarrior]

That section of Stephen Ave, Macleod Tr to 3rd St SW, has the highest concentration of heritage buildings in the city. Unfortunately, there are few other streets in downtown that can be replicated as a pedestrian experience. Virtually everywhere else are blocks of sterile office buildings, a few courtyards and uninteresting storefronts. It would be pointless to waste a lot of time and money trying to create an experience in other parts of downtown.
Whether vehicular traffic continues down 8th Ave, I think will depend on the final design recommendations for both Olympic Plaza and Stephen Ave. I betting it will be more pedestrian focused and less vehicular.

p.s When we talk about cars on Stephen Ave, we seem to forget the LRT line runs parallel, only one block north. The city should also be focused on increasing ridership, after business hours, in conjunction with the 21st century makeover experience.

First Street SW from 9th and 6th would make a really nice candidate for a traffic-limited zone. There's only three buildings on that whole stretch built in the past century (Brookfield Place, Len Werry,, and that ugly one across from the Palliser). This stretch would also have the benefit of being bookended by two sizeable plazas and include significant historic structures; the aforementioned Palliser, Grain Exchange, Lougheed Block.

Not that I'm necessarily saying cut traffic on First, but honestly I think it could really do with an addition of 50% or more to the width of sidewalks.

 

[BKha]

5 years ago when I worked at Saltlik, Most of the restaurant patrons were suburbanites or tourists, but mostly suburbanites. I'm not saying Stephen Ave needs to cater to cars, but suburbanites contribute significantly to the after hours business at those restaurants. what's the harm in leaving it as it is? or at least have one lane open. @darwink idea of one lane is a good compromise. It opens the mall up to more opportunity for pedestrians and who knows, maybe even bike lane, while still allowing taxis to come through. My own observation is more taxis than private cars use the mall, and there is a fair bit of taxi traffic dropping and picking up from the restaurants. As for having spots for cars to park, it's not needed IMO.

Might be controversial to say this, but we shouldn't care whether people who drive to Stephen Avenue are accommodated or not. To be honest, they are not the market for night time activity, and make up a ridiculously small percentage of the people who use the street. Same thing with 17th avenue. Let's stop trying to accommodate a bunch of suburbanites who complain about not being able to park or whatever, and actually focus on the people who are more likely to patronize this area (hipsters and yuppies who live downtown, or use taxis or ubers to get to those destinations). Sometimes I feel like our strategy for urbanism in this city is akin to Axe Body Spray trying to figure out how to tap the 70+ year old market. Or Saje trying to figure out how to get teenage males into essential oils. Maybe you are looking at the wrong market.

 

[Calgcouver]

Curious on what peoples opinions on adding low and mid-rise residential above existing buildings on Stephen Avenue (ie. redoing the Sport Chek or Winners) in a fashion similar to this link:

Dramatically reworked proposal for 33 West Cordova in Gastown - urbanYVR

Henriquez Partners Architects has reworked the design for a 10-storey, mixed-use development on West Cordova in Gastown.

urbanyvr.com

I think that adding a considerable amount of residential above Stephen Ave with modernized zone similar to Vancouver's HA-1, HA-1A, & HA-2 zone;

https://bylaws.vancouver.ca/zoning/zoning-by-law-district-schedule-ha-1-1a.pdf

https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/Gastown-historic-area-HA-2-Schedule.pdf

that impose significant design and material constraints to encourage redevelopment similar to Gastown, would make Stephen Ave a very interesting loft-style historic centre in Calgary. It is one thing to focus on improving the public infrastructure, but the uses are still a lot of garbage retailers and office uses above. It would be nice to see buildings like the Winners building be redeveloped, to have retail that is demised to smaller sizes, and to incorporate residential uses only above grade.

I think that it would be beneficial to rein-vision 8 Ave as a residential and retail core of the downtown on current heritage sites. Just improving the public infrastructure is just lipstick.

 

[Surrealplaces]

I wouldn't be opposed to it. It was already done with the Hyatt hotel, but the example you posted would be much better than the Hyatt.

 

[CBBarnett]

First Street SW from 9th and 6th would make a really nice candidate for a traffic-limited zone. There's only three buildings on that whole stretch built in the past century (Brookfield Place, Len Werry,, and that ugly one across from the Palliser). This stretch would also have the benefit of being bookended by two sizeable plazas and include significant historic structures; the aforementioned Palliser, Grain Exchange, Lougheed Block.

Not that I'm necessarily saying cut traffic on First, but honestly I think it could really do with an addition of 50% or more to the width of sidewalks.

The data supports what you are feeling about 1st Street SW, it's incredibly pedestrian-heavy. I pulled the 2018 cordon count and looked at the total inbound/outbound trips and active modes - all the regular data limitations of cordon counts apply obviously, but it's the best we have.

1st Street SW has the highest active modes corridor as a percentage of total trips (50.6%) and the second highest overall pedestrian total (8,421) and highest pedestrian mode share (40.2%) of any cordon that had all modes present (e.g. the Peace Bridge excluded as active modes makes 100% of trips on it).

By Total Active % of Trips Counted (of cordons with all modes present)

Cordon Location	Sum of Transit %	Sum of Peds %	Sum of Cycle %	Total Active (Transit + Peds + Cycle)
1 St SW North of 10 Av	7.9%​	40.2%​	2.4%​	50.6%​
Centre St Bridge Upper Deck	44.9%​	2.7%​	0.6%​	48.2%​
8 St SW North of 10 Av	16.4%​	30.1%​	1.6%​	48.0%​
5 St SW North of 10 Av	10.1%​	27.9%​	8.8%​	46.8%​
4 St SW North of 10 Av	15.7%​	28.6%​	0.6%​	44.9%​
9 Av SE East of 7 St	31.1%​	1.8%​	1.2%​	34.0%​
11 St SW North of 10 Av	0.8%​	25.1%​	3.9%​	29.8%​
Langevin Bridge (4 St NE)	8.4%​	13.1%​	2.6%​	24.1%​
Louise Bridge	14.7%​	6.6%​	0.5%​	21.8%​
1 St SE North of 10 Av	6.4%​	8.2%​	0.3%​	14.9%​
4 St SE North of 10 Av	1.1%​	9.3%​	3.4%​	13.8%​
Macleod Tr SE North of 10 Av	3.5%​	6.6%​	0.3%​	10.4%​
9 Av SW West of 11 St	5.9%​	0.6%​	0.2%​	6.7%​

By Total Active Trips Counted (of cordons of all modes present)

Row Labels	Sum of Transit Total	Sum of Peds Total	Sum of Cycle Total	Total
Centre St Bridge Upper Deck	22,650	1,349	317	24,316
8 St SW North of 10 Av	4,816	8,845	474	14,135
1 St SW North of 10 Av	1,652	8,421	506	10,579
5 St SW North of 10 Av	2,233	6,160	1,942	10,335
9 Av SE East of 7 St	8,485	482	314	9,281
4 St SW North of 10 Av	2,880	5,236	112	8,228
Louise Bridge	3,901	1,734	143	5,778
1 St SE North of 10 Av	2,431	3,112	128	5,671
Langevin Bridge (4 St NE)	1,844	2,871	577	5,292
11 St SW North of 10 Av	114	3,403	534	4,051
Macleod Tr SE North of 10 Av	968	1,838	89	2,895
6 Av SW West of 11 St	2,859	27	7	2,893
9 Av SW West of 11 St	2,499	255	91	2,845
5 Av Flyover	2,534	4	7	2,545
4 St SE North of 10 Av	149	1,203	441	1,793

 

[Surrealplaces]

Urban development of the non building kind. The work done around the Harvie Passage is turning more and more into a win. It was a win right off the bat with the saftey aspect, but now it's becoming a nice well used public space.

 

[googspecial]

First Street SW from 9th and 6th would make a really nice candidate for a traffic-limited zone. There's only three buildings on that whole stretch built in the past century (Brookfield Place, Len Werry,, and that ugly one across from the Palliser). This stretch would also have the benefit of being bookended by two sizeable plazas and include significant historic structures; the aforementioned Palliser, Grain Exchange, Lougheed Block.

Not that I'm necessarily saying cut traffic on First, but honestly I think it could really do with an addition of 50% or more to the width of sidewalks.

Man, the sidewalks need redone between 7 & 9 Aves so bad. This side is particularly embarrassing.