[JonnyCanuck]

On Stephen Ave, some bars and restaurants still have their patios built out to the street as this was allowed last year. With the street open to vehicular traffic, pedestrians have to veer from the sidewalk on to the road in places, to get around them. Add to that the careless people on scooters and you have a high risk for accidents. Very poor planning on the part of the city IMO. Make Stephen Ave a pedestrian only through way from Macleod Trail to 3rd St SW, like it was last year.

 

[lemongrab]

This street needs to have 20' wide sidewalks on the north side permanently (Or at least better seasonal integration than this - see Elgin in Ottawa). I'm certain 17th will be fine with 1 westbound traffic lane from 14th ST W. eastward, and I guarantee that the wider sidewalks make those businesses (& the city) more money than street parking ever could.

As a bonus, swap street parking on the south side with a separated bike lane, and bring the trees up to the edge of the curb on the north.

The sad/frustrating thing is that we've really blown our shot - after tearing things up to make marginal improvements it's hard to imagine any support to do it again the 'right' way. Same with my 1 St SW underpass example.

It's a tough balance between getting things done [relatively] quickly/quietly and actually making transformational change. There are times to settle for 'pretty good', but in such key locations it's worth at least trying for transformation (worst case you end up at 'pretty good' a few years later, but maybe you've at least advanced the conversation).

It's too bad they couldn't at least be brave for the blocks east of 2 St SW where they wouldn't run into as much short-sited resistance from business owners [that don't really exist yet on that stretch].

 

[Mountain Man]

I'm ok with 17th the way it is. The sidewalks could be a bit wider, but they are much better than most of the inner city already. Just fix it up so it's not a patchwork of different paving types and surfaces.

 

[whatchyyc]

Maybe one day run the MRU streetcar down 17th like the Kansas City streetcar down Main Street, I think the city has already outlined the entirety of 17th through the beltline as a streetcar route

 

[Mountain Man]

The return of the Belt Line?

 

[lemongrab]

Maybe one day run the MRU streetcar down 17th like the Kansas City streetcar down Main Street, I think the city has already outlined the entirety of 17th through the beltline as a streetcar route

Ooooooo I like it. Let's go a step further and loop around MRU then back north through Currie, east on 33rd through Marda Loop (as was tradition), and north on 14 St to SAIT (or beyond).

From 17th go through Stampede Park and up 5th St SE (hitting the green line) then west along Riverfront Avenue and south along 1 St SW back to 17 Ave.


Can we please just start this route up tomorrow with some faux-streetcars?!?

 

[Rollerstud98]

View attachment 397544

Not really sure what’s going on either. Maybe the city is preparing for the “red mile” so that there are facilities for people to relieve themselves. This is on the SW corner of 17th Ave and 2nd street.

Yes, there are signs saying no parking on game nights over by the school. Portapotties placed around there too.

 

[CBBarnett]

But how would dudes demonstrate their inferiority complexes ripping by the Ship?

17th could definitely re-evaluate it's relationship with cars, but I think it would be a tough sell, and I'm not sure how well the surrounding roads would support the idea. Limited transit; 17th is the southernmost E-W arterial in the core; it's also the correction point from roads running parallel with CP tracks.

I agree with your comments on 1st Street as it's another key corridor, but the real fight must be 17 Avenue SW.

We have to put mechanisms in place to match pedestrian capacity with demand more automatically - without always resorted to an long, expensive public engagement that require the public to tell engineers what a sidewalk should look like. We don’t ask the public for traffic signal timing (although we probably should) or highway curve radii either.

It also shouldn’t take public outcry to fix things like obviously unusable wheelchair ramps or a rebuild project that includes no public realm improvements (as was envisioned in the original 17 Ave rebuild).

Even still - all that is forgivable in most locations, but 17 Ave? Come on - 17th Ave is where the foot traffic is highest in the city for decades, yet has some of the narrowest and worst-condition sidewalks. It's a classic supply and demand mismatch for pedestrian space.

It should be easy to fix if we actually prioritize pedestrian capacity over others (1) and acknowledge just how high demand and foot traffic is (2). This is hardly the airport or a suburban costco, if there’s anywhere for a wider sidewalk and more dominant pedestrian infrastructure it’s 17 Ave.

 

[Calgcouver]

We definitely need wayyyyyy more of the first example in Capitol Hill. Perfect density for infill.

 

[lemongrab]

I agree with your comments on 1st Street as it's another key corridor, but the real fight must be 17 Avenue SW.

100% agree - I just don't think totally car-free is practical on 17th (though totally possible on 1st).

I'd make the 2 southern lanes 2-way traffic and use the north-most lane to extend sidewalk and maybe add a slow-speed wheeling lane. Make the remaining lane a seasonal/flex lane: bus pullouts and left-turn lanes as needed, but lots of permanent ramps to push non-motorized out as necessary in the summer. More parking in the winter.

 

[JonnyCanuck]

100% agree - I just don't think totally car-free is practical on 17th (though totally possible on 1st).

I'd make the 2 southern lanes 2-way traffic and use the north-most lane to extend sidewalk and maybe add a slow-speed wheeling lane. Make the remaining lane a seasonal/flex lane: bus pullouts and left-turn lanes as needed, but lots of permanent ramps to push non-motorized out as necessary in the summer. More parking in the winter.

Could 17th Ave be two lane, no parking, from 1 St SW to 14 St? The additional space on both sides of the street would be plenty for patios and pedestrian movement. Personally, I don't think there is a need to make street parking available on that stretch of 17th. The vast majority of pedestrian traffic on 17th Ave is from neighbourhood residents who are walking to and from home. Visitors by car to the area can find alternate parking away from 17th.
If cutting things down to one lane for cars in either direction slows through traffic then so be it. People will eventually find other/more expediant ways of travelling east to west through the Beltline. At some point this city (like most other major cities) is going to have to make some decisions in favour of walkability, vibrancy etc that will be at the the expense of of making it easier for cars. 17th Ave and Stephen Ave are two logical places to start.

 

[Urban Outdoorsman]

Could 17th Ave be two lane, no parking, from 1 St SW to 14 St? The additional space on both sides of the street would be plenty for patios and pedestrian movement. Personally, I don't think there is a need to make street parking available on that stretch of 17th. The vast majority of pedestrian traffic on 17th Ave is from neighbourhood residents who are walking to and from home. Visitors by car to the area can find alternate parking away from 17th.
If cutting things down to one lane for cars in either direction slows through traffic then so be it. People will eventually find other/more expediant ways of travelling east to west through the Beltline. At some point this city (like most other major cities) is going to have to make some decisions in favour of walkability, vibrancy etc that will be at the the expense of of making it easier for cars. 17th Ave and Stephen Ave are two logical places to start.

I'm inclined to agree, I figure 17th could handle two lanes of traffic and no on street parking. I mean even with on street parking I end up parking somewhere else anyhow because it's all gone. I don't actually think it would make any difference what so ever to the overall parking supply to get rid on on street parking.

 

[darwink]

Could 17th Ave be two lane, no parking, from 1 St SW to 14 St? The additional space on both sides of the street would be plenty for patios and pedestrian movement. Personally, I don't think there is a need to make street parking available on that stretch of 17th. The vast majority of pedestrian traffic on 17th Ave is from neighbourhood residents who are walking to and from home. Visitors by car to the area can find alternate parking away from 17th.
If cutting things down to one lane for cars in either direction slows through traffic then so be it. People will eventually find other/more expediant ways of travelling east to west through the Beltline. At some point this city (like most other major cities) is going to have to make some decisions in favour of walkability, vibrancy etc that will be at the the expense of of making it easier for cars. 17th Ave and Stephen Ave are two logical places to start.

Either measurements are much better, or volumes have dropped off by a lot along 17th Ave as it became more of a destination. I suspect both. 2 traffic lanes is more than adequate today, though left turn bays in strategic locations are likely needed to keep flow. 2 lanes and a narrow parking lane (more like a stopping lane for service/delivery/pickup/taxi/uber with a couple of very pricey parking spots) would be my choice.

 

[lemongrab]

Could 17th Ave be two lane, no parking, from 1 St SW to 14 St? The additional space on both sides of the street would be plenty for patios and pedestrian movement. Personally, I don't think there is a need to make street parking available on that stretch of 17th. The vast majority of pedestrian traffic on 17th Ave is from neighbourhood residents who are walking to and from home. Visitors by car to the area can find alternate parking away from 17th.
If cutting things down to one lane for cars in either direction slows through traffic then so be it. People will eventually find other/more expediant ways of travelling east to west through the Beltline. At some point this city (like most other major cities) is going to have to make some decisions in favour of walkability, vibrancy etc that will be at the the expense of of making it easier for cars. 17th Ave and Stephen Ave are two logical places to start.

It definitely could. Business owners would lose their minds...which shouldn't necessarily matter, but it would require an unlikely combination of courage from both admin and councillors.

A simple improvement would be to eliminate as many left turns as possible (3 rights = 1 left) as they are a pedestrian conflict scenario and congest traffic. Maybe keep them onto 11 St NB and 2nd St SB. You'd need to enhance some right-turn bays (in a 1 lane each way scenario) and maybe give some prioritized signals, but it would be a net gain for peds and encourage non-local traffic to take alternate routes.

 

[Surrealplaces]

I rode around a few of the streets in Capitol hill and was amazed at how many duplexes, or small rowhome projects are under construction. It'll be interesting to see the population changes of Capitol hill over the next few years.