[Patrick.1980]

Residential development is the right move, and as awkward as subsidies can be, this is far from the worst example of how distortions create sub-optimal outcomes in urban development. We still subsidize sprawl, for example, and that outcome creates car-dependent, inefficient, expensive neighbourhoods and lifestyles for everyone involved.

I like @Surrealplaces comment on the permanency of this kind of investment in residential conversion. That's 400 units of long-term stock that will stick around for decades. Festivals, operating subsidizes for retail and other less permanent investments don't have that long-term impact.

My thoughts exactly. Of all the different ways to improve downtown, adding residents is the best. It's not perfect, but it's the one that has the most long lasting effect. Imagine doing 20 buildings, and how much of a long lasting impact it would have? Other issues like sidewalk and street changes can be done at the same time at minimal cost. Adding people will also combat crime in the CBD.

 

[Patrick.1980]

Unfortunately, the city's plan is to fund 20+ more conversion projects, and will use the 'success' of this current crop (the projects existing), to justify the rest.
The city's plan is for a $ amount, buildings is speculative. As for hotels vs. residential: hotels have an outsized impact because the occupiers are spending more per night than residents on discretionary local consumption. At least 10x. Same with students to a lesser degree (they may have less money overall, but they're spending more of it in their immediate vicinity)

And the issue with the dollar amount is it is 100% city money. Because other levels of government aren't going to subsidize for no public purpose. It could be used for operations, not capital.

At the crux isn't hotels vs. residential vs. activations.

It is: are residential conversions really the best we can do when there is a pot of $75-$500 million to spend on activating the downtown?

I'd like to see 20+ conversions if they can be done over a period of 10 years. Hotels are good, but are limited by market factors in that there is only so much of a market for people staying in downtown Calgary, whereas you could continue converting buildings downtown to residential and they would continue filling up. As I mentioned in an earlier post it's not perfect, but I think it's the best option because it's the only option that has a lasting effect.

 

[UrbanWarrior]

So after they finish recladding the tower, they want to rip a bunch of it off again?

That’s the part about this one in particular I find so perplexing. But hey, as long as it goes ahead. I actually like the render we had seen first better than the one Aspen just released. It’s this weird flashy lipstick on a pig thing, whereas the one with basically just the punched-in balconies keeps the look of the building mostly standard and unintrusive.


The new proposal across from First Street Station could be a real game-changer. I mean obviously Telus Sky is pretty much the same thing in its uses. But this proposal preserving and reactivating currently dead historic storefronts - while Telus Sky’s development led to the demolition of the extremely active historic Arts Central building - would be a huge win, and expand the pedestrian friendly part of the core off of Stephen Avenue, if even only for one block. Very exciting.


This, combined with the 3 new conversions essentially equals 1000 new residents in the downtown core. Like not just “downtown” but the legit CBD. This will be a categorical shift… adding 10% to the population with only 4 projects. 20 more, even if it takes my tax dollars? You’re damn right I am IN. This city is about to hit the next level.

 

[Calgcouver]

All good points. I think more residential in the downtown core and west end are what is needed as a base to support a culture change and shift from such a stuffy, office and vehicle focussed core. Retail could be supported at grade, but I think two other things would help a ton in creating a liveable core as more residential is added.1) expand the public realm, so better/wider sidewalks and more street trees, and 2) more controversially, stop allowing food or retail uses on the +15 level as leases renew. This would push the retail down to the ground level gradually, as more residential is added to the downtown. It’s fine to have the +15 as a walkway in the cold months, but it being a de facto continuous mall in the downtown absolutely nukes vibrancy in the core as everything closes at 5pm.

If they can calm the streets and make them more conducive and attractive for residential and then add the retail back at-grade to those streets in an organized manner, I think that’s the play for revitalizing the downtown core and west end IMO.

Thinking that’s the ticket to vibrancy in the downtown again, but what do I know and that could be wrong.

 

[CT (Chinese_T)]

Has anyone heard anything about this development by Shape Properties?

http://shapeproperties.com/projects/west/

I assume they'll be waiting until the completion of that West Ring Road section before doing anything.

 

[zagox]

Has anyone heard anything about this development by Shape Properties?

http://shapeproperties.com/projects/west/

I assume they'll be waiting until the completion of that West Ring Road section before doing anything.

Interesting ... it is proposed for the red area on the map

 

[Disraeli]

If they can calm the streets and make them more conducive and attractive for residential and then add the retail back to those streets in an organized manner, I think that’s the play for revitalizing the downtown core and west end IMO.

To me this is the way to go. Developers recognize that expensive residential builds in a downtown core that lacks a sense of place and has a hostile public realm is tough to market to new residents. If the City can improve that aspect of the CBD I think that developers will naturally begin to invest in new builds including conversions.

 

[MichaelS]

If I remember correctly, the Shape project had some permits/land use zoning in back in 2014ish, but I think it has been put on hold until completion of the ring road. Not sure if the market has changed substantially for retail since then, but a brand new expanded interchange for access in and out of the area will sure help, along with the community of Osprey Hills will help as well. Would be great to see it go forward.

 

[Surrealplaces]

The competition with developers is indirect. There is little opportunity for new residential developments in the CBD except for conversions. They would compete somewhat with Beltline developments, but the locations are kind of apples to oranges. Why not fund 20 conversions? Do it over a 10 year period and it's only two projects per year.

IIRC anyone can apply for funding now and there’s the potential for that many all at once. If spread over multiple years I’m fine with it.

I wouldn’t want to see all of the money spent upfront all at once. It would be good to see a few conversions done and see how they pan out before doing the rest. Take in any lessons learned from the first ones.

 

[Surrealplaces]

All good points. I think more residential in the downtown core and west end are what is needed as a base to support a culture change and shift from such a stuffy, office and vehicle focussed core. Retail could be supported at grade, but I think two other things would help a ton in creating a liveable core as more residential is added.1) expand the public realm, so better/wider sidewalks and more street trees, and 2) more controversially, stop allowing food or retail uses on the +15 level as leases renew. This would push the retail down to the ground level gradually, as more residential is added to the downtown. It’s fine to have the +15 as a walkway in the cold months, but it being a de facto continuous mall in the downtown absolutely nukes vibrancy in the core as everything closes at 5pm.

If they can calm the streets and make them more conducive and attractive for residential and then add the retail back at-grade to those streets in an organized manner, I think that’s the play for revitalizing the downtown core and west end IMO.

Thinking that’s the ticket to vibrancy in the downtown again, but what do I know and that could be wrong.

I’m thinking if the residential conversions are limited at the beginning, other amounts can be used for public realm upgrades. Maybe some money from the city (and the province) can be used to help fund a new Arts University campus.
For the first few years maybe a percentage of money from property taxes of the new residences can also be used for public realm improvements?

 

[JWhite]

Rundown of the current multi-family (25 units or more) u/c in non-greenfield areas. I've copied this to the front page of the thread so we can keep track and make future comparisons. Anything missing, let me know.
Feb 4, 2022

Core development
U/C Units in Beltline/DT/EV

Oliver - 866
Sunalta Towers - 333
The Hat 14th - 239
1334 10th - 80
Arris Tower west - 310
Park Central II - 460
Sierra Place - 80
West Village Towers - 554
The Fifth - 34
Nude - 177
Curtis Block - 628
11th and 11th - 369
Total Units: 4,130

U/C in Near Inner City (Bridgeland, Kensington, Mission, Inglewood, Bankview)
Theodore - 114
Archer - 40
Riverwalk - 141
Block on 4th - 39
Elva - 61
Dominion - 300
The Bridge - 285
Brio Bridgeland - 25
Era - 178
Nimmons Court - 84
Bankview 19+14 -78
Lynbrook Manor - 48
Scarboro 17 - 52
Total Units 1,446

U/C Suburban (non-greenfield infill)
The Dells - 202
Kingsland Junction - 579
Northland Village - 229
19 + 2 - 51
Trail 19 - 78
Capella - 142
Grammercy - 83
Harrison - 67
Catalyst - 75
DeVille - 333
West 17 - 102
Cascade - 45
Montagomery Square - ?
Total Units 1,986

I didn’t know we had so many of these projects underway. When you see them in a list it’s impressive.

 

[JWhite]

Gates on Calgary’s Crescent Road being considered for master plan and safety issues - Calgary | Globalnews.ca

A popular spot for running, graduation photos and having lunch, Crescent Heights residents also say it comes with noise, garbage, speeding and crime.

globalnews.ca

As someone who cycles on it a fair bit I wouldn't miss the vehicles, but it does reek of nimbyism.

Total nimby instead of putting gates, make changes to better control the bad elements. One way road lane and limited parking could work.

 

[JWhite]

That Cidex one is destroying the history of a super cool building. One of my favourites. Of course they choose dark blue. Probably most of it spandrel as well.

I like the old school spandrel on that building. I hope they leave it.

 

[darwink]

can be used to help fund a new Arts University campus.

Anything that can add students would be a plus. When we look across the country the more proximate and the larger the school to downtown the more successful a downtown is.

Arts campus would be a quick win, though quite small. Moving a few entire faculties from UCalgary would be good too. Adding in a large headcount growth at the same time would be better, but gotta convince the province to fund the spots unless you have another yearly funding source. Targeting skills that growth industries are complaining there is a lack of would be great.

If I am spending millions converting buildings I want it on a public purpose. And PSE is a pretty good one to get behind. Lots of positive externalities.

 

[UrbanWarrior]

All good points. I think more residential in the downtown core and west end are what is needed as a base to support a culture change and shift from such a stuffy, office and vehicle focussed core. Retail could be supported at grade, but I think two other things would help a ton in creating a liveable core as more residential is added.1) expand the public realm, so better/wider sidewalks and more street trees, and 2) more controversially, stop allowing food or retail uses on the +15 level as leases renew. This would push the retail down to the ground level gradually, as more residential is added to the downtown. It’s fine to have the +15 as a walkway in the cold months, but it being a de facto continuous mall in the downtown absolutely nukes vibrancy in the core as everything closes at 5pm.

If they can calm the streets and make them more conducive and attractive for residential and then add the retail back at-grade to those streets in an organized manner, I think that’s the play for revitalizing the downtown core and west end IMO.

Thinking that’s the ticket to vibrancy in the downtown again, but what do I know and that could be wrong.

I believe that is largely a part of the “greater downtown plan”. I’m pretty sure only $200 million of the $1 billion of the proposed plan is to go toward residential conversion. Possibly even less than 200 actually? I know that of the initial $200 million investment, 45 million is for the first 20+ residential conversions. I know a decent amount of people on here are against subsidizing residential conversions, but it really does seem like a sensible allocation of the first phase of funding… at least to me

For instance, I am fairly certain the “downtown vibrancy capital program” is directly related to making the sidewalks and street fronts more pedestrian-friendly/less hostile. Also likely better signage and placemaking projects. Programming is clearly aimed at attracting community-building events in the core. Just like CMLC does with the EV, these sort of things do attract a lot of suburbanites into the core. Even if it doesn’t attract new residents, it shows these people that downtown is a place to be enjoyed, rather than avoided/feared, a shift in the psychology of this city that is desperately needed if we are to continue to intensify neighbourhoods elsewhere as well.

I know in my travels and meeting of Calgarians these many years, I know a lot in the millennial and Z generations were raised to fear downtown as this dangerous place. That image needs to be changed and this is how it starts. Programmed events, “eyes on the street,” no “broken windows.”