[scarberiankhatru]

"You just can't justify the extension of the subway to Highway 7 by saying it will remove riders from Yonge. It won't, because the peope who use Yonge all live close enough to it that they should be using Yonge. You want to boost ridership on Spadina? Get people in Woodbridge and Maple out of their cars!"

I think that, in general, when people talk about the Spadina extension grabbing riders from the Yonge line, they're only talking about the stations at Finch and Steeles, which may divert a large number of bus riders onto Spadina rather than continue on over to Yonge.

 

[gboykovekin]

After biking from Newmarket to Toronto on Yonge and back several times this week I have to say that the Yonge Viva buses are always full no matter which direction they're going or coming from, which is amazing considering their frequency. As I passed Highway 7, the Viva bus seemed to have slightly smaller loads, but respectable nonetheless. And I should mention that the Viva drivers are quite courteous on the road to cyclists, signalling early and giving plenty of room when passing. Very much unilke GO drivers, who I've almost been run over on numerous occasions (especially near Major Mack).

 

[miketoronto]

I agree that different areas of York Region do have different views twords transit. Woodbridge is just not very transit friendly, and this is showing in the VIVA ridership. Why would they need so much transit out there, when all the Gino Italian men are in their cars showing off to the ladies Its just the culture our in Woodbridge that is very anti transit.

Anyway the service decreases are really not that large on VIVA. The changes make sense.

 

[doady]

Every VIVA route except VIVA Blue is seeing decreased rush hour service on April 30.

Purple: from 10 min to 13 min
Pink: from 11 min to 13 min
Orange: from 11 min to 15 min
Green: from 12 min to 15 min

Purple is seeing many trips cancelled outright. Several regular routes are seeing decreased service as well, most notable route 1. It is quite pathetic.

York Region was expecting ridership to reach 19 million in 2006, up from 15 million in 2005 but somehow I don't think they will reach it. January 2006 ridership only saw 6.6% increase compared to January 2005.

In comparison, January 2006 ridership for Brampton Transit was 14.2% higher than January 2005, a much higher increase than York Region Transit got, despite having no "rapid transit" projects.

 

[Chuck100]

The increase of 6.6% - 1.3 million in 2006 vs 1.23 million in 2005 - is based on total fares collected. The total boardings, which takes into account people who use the 2 hour transfer period, is over 1.8 million. That puts the actual ridership increase much higher than 6.6%. Remember that fewer people are paying a fare for both directions of their trip, which is why fares paid on St. Clair is likely to drop now that it too has a 2 hour transfer period.

Also, the service reduction on purple is only during the summer, starting after York's exam period ends. 10 minute service is resuming in September.

 

[doady]

The increase of 6.6% - 1.3 million in 2006 vs 1.23 million in 2005 - is based on total fares collected. The total boardings, which takes into account people who use the 2 hour transfer period, is over 1.8 million. That puts the actual ridership increase much higher than 6.6%. Remember that fewer people are paying a fare for both directions of their trip, which is why fares paid on St. Clair is likely to drop now that it too has a 2 hour transfer period.

Brampton Transit introduced the two hour transfer in 2005 as well, and its ridership growth has not slowed at all like in York Region. If anything, it has increased.

Also, the service reduction on purple is only during the summer, starting after York's exam period ends. 10 minute service is resuming in September.

Yes, but the other VIVA routes are getting cut service as well. Same with some of the regular routes (especially route 1). Also as far as I know, neither MT, BT or the TTC temporarily decrease service during the summer, yet YRT are doing it for their second busiest VIVA route which seems strange to me.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

"Also as far as I know, neither MT, BT or the TTC temporarily decrease service during the summer"

Doesn't the TTC reduce service on routes like Progress and the Humber Rocket when post-secondary classes aren't going on? If people going to York make up a majority of the Purple Line's riders, it makes sense, even if it sort of sends out mixed signals.

 

[spmarshall]

GO will also cut back the 407 service as there are less university and college students using it, not only at York, but at Mac, UOIT/Durham, Centennial, Sheridan, UTScar as well.

Brampton has surprised me as to how serious they are about transit. They have already indicated they will start using the provincial component of the Acceleride money (their own contribution already started), and not wait for the Feds. They might hit 10 million in rides, still small compared to MT, but probably quite higher than YRT, in ridership per capita. BT used to be a joke, but they still have quite a ways to go.

 

[Sir Novelty Fashion]

It's funny; I was just looking at an empty Orange viva bus, after riding an empty subway to Downsview at 7:00 on a weeknight, then riding another empty subway back. This is a promising area of expansion.

 

[Chuck100]

Brampton Transit introduced the two hour transfer in 2005 as well, and its ridership growth has not slowed at all like in York Region. If anything, it has increased.

The question is did Brampton state revenue trips or total trips. While YRT did not, and has never used total boardings as a measure of ridership, that has not traditionally been important. But because this is a transitional year, it would be useful to compare total trips in 2006 to 2005, not revenue trips.

In any case, you would naturally expect relative ridership increases to drop as ridership grows. If 2005 was a very healthy year, the TTC's ridership would grow by maybe 2-4%, meaning roughly 15 million extra rides.

Several regular routes are seeing decreased service as well, most notable route 1. It is quite pathetic.

Was it pathetic when the TTC eliminated streetcars on Yonge when the subway opened? Transit service on HIghway 7 more than doubled overnight when viva was introduced, while ridership obviously did not. Pre-viva service was maintained to allow people to make the transition. Service hours and seats per passenger are much higher today than they were a year ago on Highway 7.

 

[doady]

Yes, the other transit system might decrease service a little on certain routes, many of which are designed specifically to for students (like GO's 407 bus), but not routes as major as VIVA Purple.

The question is did Brampton state revenue trips or total trips. While YRT did not, and has never used total boardings as a measure of ridership, that has not traditionally been important. But because this is a transitional year, it would be useful to compare total trips in 2006 to 2005, not revenue trips.

The data on Brampton Transit's website is for revenue trips, just like for YRT.

Was it pathetic when the TTC eliminated streetcars on Yonge when the subway opened? Transit service on HIghway 7 more than doubled overnight when viva was introduced, while ridership obviously did not. Pre-viva service was maintained to allow people to make the transition. Service hours and seats per passenger are much higher today than they were a year ago on Highway 7.

But VIVA is not a subway. The buses do not even have their own ROW. It is just an express bus and express buses cannot replace the regular bus service. Neither the TTC or MT have express buses that operate by themselves in major corridors.

Last year, MT introduced a new express route along Hurontario that is is now quite heavily used but MT did not cut service on the regular route and they do not have to because it is still overcrowded. MT also used to have express bus routes for Bloor and Dixie, but these were cancelled so that they could improve the regular service in these corridors, both of which BTW are much busier than Highway 7.

Even though it is great that York Region want to improve transit so much, I just think they are going about it the wrong way. I think York Region should worry about providing some decent regular service first before they think about express service. $180 million for all this seems like a waste when they could have simply used the money build a transitway down Yonge.

 

[spmarshall]

Last year, MT introduced a new express route along Hurontario that is is now quite heavily used but MT did not cut service on the regular route and they do not have to because it is still overcrowded.

Well, perhaps for south of Britannia. Passengers north of Britannia were screwed pretty good, especially in midday weekday times, when the express bus doesn't run.

 

[miketoronto]

The MT EXPRESS route also only runs during peak rush hours and not all day like VIVA. Also the MT 19 is overcrowded. The Highway 7 bus was never.

YRT is bound to have some growing pains here. Many of their main roads do not have high enough density to support such high frequancy service yet, or the ridership built up.

Its going to take time to build up the ridership in an area like York, where people have already been conditioned to use cars and their high incomes.

People were use to buses coming every hour. Now its every 15min. It just going to take time.

 

[drum118]

Quote:Last year, MT introduced a new express route along Hurontario that is is now quite heavily used but MT did not cut service on the regular route and they do not have to because it is still overcrowded.



Well, perhaps for south of Britannia. Passengers north of Britannia were screwed pretty good, especially in midday weekday times, when the express bus doesn't run.
------------------------------------------------------------------
No kidding.

I have told the clowns at MT that to do what they are doing today, you need to have a bus every 4 minutes to service the south and every 8 minutes for the north and even this is a joke. Currently it is 12-16 minutes north of Britannia and it should only be every 10 minutes.

The 19A rarely carries more than 30 riders from Sq One going north while 19 is at crush load. Therefore anyone wants on a 19 going to Brampton or from Brampton at peak time are luckily to fine a seat let alone get on the first bus that shows up.

Even the 202 is getting crush loads that operates every 18 minutes at peak time.

I have call for 202 to run every 15 minutes from start of service until 3.00 pm (all Day) and then drop to every 10 minutes until 7.00 pm for weekday and every 15 minutes on Saturday and Sunday. ……Oh!!!! Express on the weekend of all things. Just one of 5 express route that should be on the road for the weekend.

19A needs to be cancelled and put the 19 headway to 5 minutes all day as there are to many close doors south of Sq One let alone north of it. This is for weekdays. Saturday would see 6 minutes during the day and 12 minutes at night. Sunday service should be every 15 minutes period.

The ridership is low for the VIVA Purple line now, but in time it will be there. This is a lot better than what to use to be there. More riders west of Yonge than there east of Yonge for the simple reason, York University.

Orange is your poor route for Hwy 7 and that going to take a long time to build up.

I don't know what Green is like at peak time, but midday is dead. There was only one person on the bus that I was on a week ago all the way to Don Mills Station.

19 is MT bread and butter route that see close to 30,000 riders a day and that is reason why and LRT is being looked at for this route now. With all the development been plan alone 19, buses will never handle the load.

Dundas is the second busy stop for Hurontario St that see over 700 riders per hour at peak time. Some times it has more riders going north than Sq One does. Using 55 rider per bus at peak time, you need 12 buses going north every 5 minutes. Then it needs less riders to handle the ridership that gets on at Hillcrest and this would workout to be a bus every 3.33 minutes or 20 per hour at Dundas.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

"Yes, the other transit system might decrease service a little on certain routes, many of which are designed specifically to for students (like GO's 407 bus), but not routes as major as VIVA Purple."

But if people only use it to go to York than it's really no different than TTC or GO routes that exist to serve students. The Hwy 7 corridor itself is still largely a fragmented wasteland and the Purple Line is duplicated in places by other lines that connect to subway stations.

"I don't know what Green is like at peak time, but midday is dead. There was only one person on the bus that I was on a week ago all the way to Don Mills Station."

I usually only see it during afternoon rush hour and it's always virtually empty.