[kEiThZ]

Part of the problem is that scarborough is so used to STC being a hub they can't envision a world where that isn't the case. This subway is costing the equivalent of a lrt on every major street in scarborough which would lead to other subways, go or smart track but because they haven't had transit in forever and because they are so used to this hub they can't see how this is a collosal waste which will forever eat up all their funds for anything else

This is exactly right. It's hard for people to picture STC not being their hub. So LRT is less attractive. Fully admit I was in this mode for a while.

My biggest complaint now is that instead of offering a better LRT plan though, the subway opponents want to trade the subway for the same gimped LRT plan, one which has so many holes that a good chunk of Malvern will still be riding a bus. And that makes LRT undesirable still.....because it's not taking away transfers.

Sheppard East should run to the zoo, not just till Morningside.
Eglinton East should run till Sheppard, or even more till Morningside and Finch, not just till Military Road and Morningside.
Scarborough LRT should run till Malvern Town Centre, not just till Sheppard and Progress.

And most importantly, all three need to built instead of the Subway. Not in phases of 10-25 years. All three. Simultaneously or as close to simultaneously as funds, and personnel will allow.

 

[TOareaFan]

Her credibility is being dragged through the mud.........

If she ever again comes up with another transit plan for, Scarborough, I am not going to believe it. But hey I'm glad to hear you like vegetables. Zing! You win.

The only part of your post I disagree with is limiting her credibility gap to Scarborough......her professional planning opinions have proven so malleable I don't know why you would agree with her opinions no matter what part of the city she is planning for.

 

[kEiThZ]

I'd love to see a mayoral candidate run on providing alternate solutions to transit in Scarborough. This doesn't just mean proposing going back to the original LRT proposal, but other solutions such as building the Scarborough LRT + Crosstown East with enhanced fare integration on GO Transit, for example. Surely there is somebody in this city that can convince voters that all of that is a better deal than a single stop $3.5 Billion subway that'll save commuters, at best, 5 minutes (according to City Staff).

Nobody seems interested in offering more LRT. They all want to go back to the gimped Scarborough LRT plan. Heck, I don't think even Olivia Chow promised advancing the SM/EELRT to an earlier timeframe.

 

[pman]

Just for laughs I googled "world's dumbest transit project" and got this. Of course it doesn't apply any more since it only refers to the original cheaper, three-stop subway. And SSE has been rebranded as "city building" rather than transit, which makes sense when you think about how few additional riders it will carry. So good news, we're no longer among North America's stupidest cities!

https://www.inverse.com/article/942...sportation-projects-underway-in-north-america

 

[OneCity]

This is exactly right. It's hard for people to picture STC not being their hub. So LRT is less attractive. Fully admit I was in this mode for a while.

My biggest complaint now is that instead of offering a better LRT plan though, the subway opponents want to trade the subway for the same gimped LRT plan, one which has so many holes that a good chunk of Malvern will still be riding a bus. And that makes LRT undesirable still.....because it's not taking away transfers.

Sheppard East should run to the zoo, not just till Morningside.
Eglinton East should run till Sheppard, or even more till Morningside and Finch, not just till Military Road and Morningside.
Scarborough LRT should run till Malvern Town Centre, not just till Sheppard and Progress.

And most importantly, all three need to built instead of the Subway. Not in phases of 10-25 years. All three. Simultaneously or as close to simultaneously as funds, and personnel will allow.

Im personally torn as its not my preference . But that would certainly get the vote in Scarborough without any doubt.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

My biggest complaint now is that instead of offering a better LRT plan though, the subway opponents want to trade the subway for the same gimped LRT plan, one which has so many holes that a good chunk of Malvern will still be riding a bus. And that makes LRT undesirable still.....because it's not taking away transfers.

These subway opponents also seem to be big proponents of the Crosstown East, though. I don't think there is anybody who wants to go back to the Scarborough LRT alone and build nothing else

 

[kEiThZ]

Exactly, I would rather ride a bus (or LRT) to a GO Train Station in Scarborough if the second part of the trip was an integrated transfer. If the idea is to connect Scarborough then you actually want to go away from Scarborough Town Centre because it already has a connection. $3.5B will pay for a lot of free rides downtown (assuming RER is up and running before a shovel hits the ground for this subway).

Absolutely. I keep saying this. RER would kill the demand for subway for long-haul. My only hope for Smart Track was that it would push Metrolink to make the RER more 416 friendly on both the number of stations and fares. But regardless of the fate of SmartTrack, it's looking likely that RER itself will not happen if the Tories win the next election. And that will simply bolster the argument for subway expansion.

The GTA needs to make RER a priority. Perhaps even over LRTs. If only to curtail demands for more subway expansion.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Only 37% of them. More want LRT - which isn't surprise, as it serves more people:

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...nts-back-lrt-but-only-slightly-poll-says.html

Imagine how many more would want the SLRT and Crosstown East over the one stop subway.

 

[OneCity]

These subway opponents also seem to be big proponents of the Crosstown East, though. I don't think there is anybody who wants to go back to the Scarborough LRT alone and build nothing else

They didnt have the same enthusiasm towards building the Crosstown East during Transit City but now they have no choice.

It should be subway and Crosstown East

 

[kEiThZ]

These subway opponents also seem to be big proponents of the Crosstown East, though. I don't think there is anybody who wants to go back to the Scarborough LRT alone and build nothing else

Except that not a single subway opponent on council is actually offering to put back the missing stops or to advance the other LRTs as an alternative. Or at least I have not seen any opponents do that. Please post if you find any.

All I see is whining about the subway costs and the cost as a rationale on why the SSE should be cut. If you're a pro-subway citizen, that sounds an awful lot like non-Scarborough Councillors want to underinvest in your transit.

I will say this too. I get the sense that those who are most pro-subway vote in elections. It's why Scarborough Councillors are probably weary of switching tracks, so to speak.

 

[Cobra]

I want streetcars and LRT too. But where they should be, not as a priority, not an either or, not where others want to put them

Is there merits to a subway extension within Scarborough? Yes but the 1 stop subway plan is pure insanity.

John Tory as officially failed this city on transit. He should have left the 3 stop subway plan alone, instead, his Smarttrack scheme derailed yet again our true priorities

http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2016/11/toronto-share-costs-smarttrack-other-transit-projects
Smarttrack should have been thrown away while we had the chance:

1.the capital costs for building six new GO stations = $3.7B (essentially could have been replicated with Relief Line Long)

• Finch? How about a BRT on Finch or Express branch of the Finch Bus going to Don Mills & Sheppard Relief Line Station? It's not a destination for GO users
• Lawrence East? Scarborough Subway
• Gerrard? Relief Line
• East Harbour? Relief Line and FIrst Gulf is willing to build an intermodal Transit Hub
• Spadina? See below at point #2. Part of the deal
• Liberty Village? King Transit Mall and Waterfront LRT
• Bloor-Davenport? See below at point #2. Part of the deal
• St.Clair? New streetcar for better service and extend St.Clair to Runnymede or Jane
• Mount.Dennis? Already planned in the crosstown project

2.the capital costs for extending the Crosstown LRT further west=$2.5B (the only good thing as we get Crosstown West funded and upgraded)

• the costs to operate and maintain light rail transit lines
• 15 per cent of the costs for building several "grade separations"—bridges—where major roadways cross GO corridors to help Metrolinx implement its RER network. Fifteen percent of these costs is about $62 million.
• $60 million to improve GO stations and other infrastructure for RER. This proposal also allows GO to build two more new stations—not part of the SmartTrack scheme—on the Barrie line near Spadina Avenue and Front Street, and near Bloor Street West and Lansdowne Avenue.

What's wrong is that $3.7B to fund Smarttrack just for legacy/egotistical reasons. That $3.7B he got for "Dumbtrack" should have been directed to maintained the 3 stop subway plan to Sheppard Avenue East. That plan had the ridership justifying its construction and served Scarborough on both sides of the 401.

Instead of borrowing/taxing for SSE, we would be doing that for Crosstown East and Waterfront LRT while submitting them to the Federal Government Infrastructure Plan. Relief Line will undeniably be submitted under that same plan.

That's why I'm mad and also why I'm not voting Tory next time.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Except that not a single subway opponent on council is actually offering to put back the missing stops or to advance the other LRTs as an alternative. Or at least I have not seen any opponents do that. Please post if you find any.

What missing stops on the LRT? Are you referring to Midland?

I will say this too. I get the sense that those who are most pro-subway vote in elections. It's why Scarborough Councillors are probably weary of switching tracks, so to speak

I wager you're right about that.

 

[Cobra]

If professionals cannot be kept separate from political interference, then why do we have them around to begin with? Why do we pay their salaries? I mean, it's not like John Tory listens to them anyway when he doesn't like their advice, as we've seen many times.

I'm sure in private, we all have our opinions, but at the end of the day, our bosses have the last say. Same for her.

 

[OneCity]

Is there merits to a subway extension within Scarborough? Yes but the 1 stop subway plan is pure insanity.

John Tory as officially failed this city on transit. He should have left the 3 stop subway plan alone, instead, his Smarttrack scheme derailed yet again our true priorities

http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2016/11/toronto-share-costs-smarttrack-other-transit-projects
Smarttrack should have been thrown away while we had the chance:

1.the capital costs for building six new GO stations = $3.7B (essentially could have been replicated with Relief Line Long)

• Finch? How about a BRT on Finch or Express branch of the Finch Bus going to Don Mills & Sheppard Relief Line Station? It's not a destination for GO users
• Lawrence East? Scarborough Subway
• Gerrard? Relief Line
• East Harbour? Relief Line and FIrst Gulf is willing to build an intermodal Transit Hub
• Spadina? See below at point #2. Part of the deal
• Liberty Village? King Transit Mall and Waterfront LRT
• Bloor-Davenport? See below at point #2. Part of the deal
• St.Clair? New streetcar for better service and extend St.Clair to Runnymede or Jane
• Mount.Dennis? Already planned in the crosstown project

2.the capital costs for extending the Crosstown LRT further west=$2.5B (the only good thing as we get Crosstown West funded and upgraded)

• the costs to operate and maintain light rail transit lines
• 15 per cent of the costs for building several "grade separations"—bridges—where major roadways cross GO corridors to help Metrolinx implement its RER network. Fifteen percent of these costs is about $62 million.
• $60 million to improve GO stations and other infrastructure for RER. This proposal also allows GO to build two more new stations—not part of the SmartTrack scheme—on the Barrie line near Spadina Avenue and Front Street, and near Bloor Street West and Lansdowne Avenue.

What's wrong is that $3.7B to fund Smarttrack just for legacy/egotistical reasons. That $3.7B he got for "Dumbtrack" should have been directed to maintained the 3 stop subway plan to Sheppard Avenue East. That plan had the ridership justifying its construction and served Scarborough on both sides of the 401.

Instead of borrowing/taxing for SSE, we would be doing that for Crosstown East and Waterfront LRT while submitting them to the Federal Government Infrastructure Plan. Relief Line will undeniably be submitted under that same plan.

That's why I'm mad and also why I'm not voting Tory next time.

Nailed it. This is the plan the media should be attacking and the reason we only have "one stop". There certianly will be a candidate who does attack this problem directly and all the Scarborough voters who dislike the 1 stop likely wont have to vote for LRT. Tory really needs to let this ST die off and get the Eglinton Crosstown funded. Things can and will change in teh next few months but as it stands right now hes in some trouble

 

[salsa]

Just for laughs I googled "world's dumbest transit project" and got this. Of course it doesn't apply any more since it only refers to the original cheaper, three-stop subway. And SSE has been rebranded as "city building" rather than transit, which makes sense when you think about how few additional riders it will carry. So good news, we're no longer among North America's stupidest cities!

https://www.inverse.com/article/942...sportation-projects-underway-in-north-america

Make sure to also check out this extremely biased, fake news media by the failing Beaverton. Very dishonest media. SAD!



Thunder Bay transit opens single subway station

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2017/03/thunder-bay-transit-opens-single-subway-station/