[M II A II R II K]

A subway can go to the fields if it’s pulling people into dense areas, but if it acts and looks like commuter rail being above ground.

 

[Cobra]

I think the people of Scarborough is partly at blame here. One has to think hard about what they demand for because if one’s demands are too far fetched from what’s reasonable, then nothing usually gets done.

You're generalizing a bit too much. What about local councillors?

1. Scarborough demanded a subway extension of line 4 when a LRT could have done the job. It fought hard to kill the LRT and is now getting nothing.

What about all those ideas to speed up the line and increase attractiveness that were outright rejected? Sheppard East LRT could have been improved if Giambrone and the TTC weren't as adamant to cancel the 85 bus. That would have allowed for some stations to be dropped and increase the line's speed. I went to those consultations and they wouldn't even commit to heaters at the LRT stops. Let's be honest here, calling Sheppard East "Rapid" was a bit of a stretch, even the Star said so in one editorial.

2. Scarborough demanded a subway extension of line 2 while either a renovation of the existing system or an LRT could’ve done the job. They are still fighting.

Let's be blunt here. The SRT was a mistake. On top of that, it was neglected shamefully by the city. You blame the people for having little faith that the city would not repeat the same pattern?

Before blasting the people of Scarborough, remember that they did embrace the merged Scarborough-Eglinton Crosstown which was LRT using the same corridor. But some egos at city hall killed the project because they put their agenda ahead of the good of the city. The Scarborough file would have been closed for good as those "crybaby" from Scarborough actually liked the project and it was well received.

And people need to stop pitching the equal treatment against population density. Subways are about density and should only be used when there are no alternatives.

Keep acting like Scarborough never accepted LRT and that the city at the time was unbelievably inflexible in regards to people's recommendations to improved the LRT plan. If Transit City at the time was led by Metrolinx instead of Giambrone/Miller, things could have turned out very differently as Metrolinx actually listens (maybe too much at times...Leslie stop)

Dude, really not as black and white as you're trying to paint it

 

[syn]

This thread is an excellent argument for de-amalgamation.

Scarborough's nonsense is holding the rest of the city back. The entitlement is unbelievable.

As they're own city, they can come up with whatever crazy schemes they'd like and figure out a way to pay for it themselves.

 

[Leo_Chan]

This thread is an excellent argument for de-amalgamation.

Scarborough's nonsense is holding the rest of the city back. The entitlement is unbelievable.

As they're own city, they can come up with whatever crazy schemes they'd like and figure out a way to pay for it themselves.

How would they fund said schemes? Leaving Toronto is like being the ignored child leaving the family to become homeless and invisible.

 

[Hopkins123]

This thread is an excellent argument for de-amalgamation.

Scarborough's nonsense is holding the rest of the city back. The entitlement is unbelievable.

As they're own city, they can come up with whatever crazy schemes they'd like and figure out a way to pay for it themselves.

Right, because downtowners holding out for a subway to replace the Pape bus which carries like 7000 passengers daily aren't entitled.

 

[syn]

How would they fund said schemes? Leaving Toronto is like being the ignored child leaving the family to become homeless and invisible.

Oh they won't. Then they'll realize they have to build transit commensurate with the environment.

 

[Cobra]

This thread is an excellent argument for de-amalgamation.

Scarborough's nonsense is holding the rest of the city back. The entitlement is unbelievable.

As they're own city, they can come up with whatever crazy schemes they'd like and figure out a way to pay for it themselves.

Very idiotic comment... You're getting hard to take seriously

 

[gweed123]

This thread is an excellent argument for de-amalgamation.

Scarborough's nonsense is holding the rest of the city back. The entitlement is unbelievable.

As they're own city, they can come up with whatever crazy schemes they'd like and figure out a way to pay for it themselves.

Heck, I'd be fine with a new law that states that 50% of the municipal share of the capital costs of building new local rapid transit infrastructure (i.e. not GO) must be borne by the former municipality that it's being built in.

 

[syn]

Very idiotic comment... You're getting hard to take seriously

I guess that would make me a pro-SSE argument!

Right, because downtowners holding out for a subway to replace the Pape bus which carries like 7000 passengers daily aren't entitled.

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[syn]

Heck, I'd be fine with a new law that states that 50% of the municipal share of the capital costs of building new local rapid transit infrastructure (i.e. not GO) must be borne by the former municipality that it's being built in.

Would Scarborough be okay with that?

I get the feeling it would be a problem.

 

[Cobra]

I guess that would make me a pro-SSE argument!

You are hard to take seriously. You just double down on your rhetoric and dismiss other people's argument. You still won't comment on what I said... That people wanted the Sheppard LRT project improved but the city wouldn't hear it and that Scarborough-Eglinton Crosstown was an LRT project who was positively received by Scarborough residents.

Why won't you comment on the city inflexible position on Sheppard East and the SRT?

Egos from a few led us to where we are today, not Scarborough residents.

 

[syn]

I and others have commented on that numerous times.

Rob Ford's plan would've resulted in the entire transit budget being used, meaning no funds for any other projects like the Finch LRT.

If the plan is as accepted as you suggest, then why not revive it? Why not put funding into that project instead of building a silly extension because 'we deserve it'?

Your constant complaining about the SRT shows a complete lack of perspective. Kennedy to STC in less than 10 minutes is amazing.

If I'm at Kipling and I want to get to Sherway, do you know what my options are? I'll let you figure that one out.

 

[Hopkins123]

I and others have commented on that numerous times.

Rob Ford's plan would've resulted in the entire transit budget being used, meaning no funds for any other projects like the Finch LRT.

If the plan is as accepted as you suggest, then why not revive it? Why not put funding into that project instead of building a silly extension because 'we deserve it'?

Your constant complaining about the SRT shows a complete lack of perspective. Kennedy to STC in less than 10 minutes is amazing.

If I'm at Kipling and I want to get to Sherway, do you know what my options are? I'll let you figure that one out.

Then propose a subway extension to Sherway then. Stop acting as if throwing Scarborough a bone after decades of neglect (one-quarter of the total population and one-third of the total land area of the 416 yet only comprises 10% of the rapid transit network) is somehow depriving other areas from getting their rapid transit upgrades.

Just because Scarborough has been proactive in lobbying for a subway, doesn't mean we ought to fault them for it. Elections matter, and while those are not usually single-issue affairs, a sizeable plurality, if not majority, did in fact vote based on the subway pledges of several politicians.

 

[OneCity]

Perhaps you should ask yourself that question? After all, you’re the one here that regularly insinuates that anyone that opposes a single rapid transit stop in Scarborough either has an “anti-Scarborough” bias, or is part of some grand conspiracy to screw Scarborough over.

Not quite. I was addressing the constant mockery of another poster, I don't box posters as a you all" or personally attack like some posters do here. Please don't even start to accuse me of that same type of nonsense. Whether I agree or not I actually appreciate alternate plans from other posters but do question any tangible cost or time saving going back to anything that would be realistically accepted.

I do think those (mainly councillors and the media) who are promoting the old LRT plan are wasting everyone's time at this stage an doing Scarborough a disservice. The unwillingness to get off this transfer laden plan with zero compromise is only going to make politics worse for those are determined for transfer plans. And as if they didn't have enough warning that outside dictatorship is not good for the City they tripled down going with no other alternates.

All the extreme, hardened Opposition have done is tried to prevent subway stops to help batter the subway and promote an unwanted transfer plan. Surely that was never going to gain them any support outside their mostly wards. Sadly the stupidity of a one stop subway and stupidity of a rejected transfer LRT plan is a direct campaign for Doug Ford. Although I think Tory should win, not getting the Eglinton East committed for funding prior to election could really hurt him in Scarborough when the subway has been neutered to one stop under his "reign" (although he is only one vote). Tory also barely snuck by last election with Ford on a short campaign, and Tory boasting a Smarttrack plan that is almost disappeared, and a 3 stop subway. I really wouldnt be that surprised if he gains ground because of this. This should have been obvious and compromise really would have helped the opposition last election, but tripling down on transfers this election will come back to hurt on the transit front. Which is an important topic and average people all over are all sick and tired of debate, so moving forward could save Tory some votes. Otherwise like it or not Ford gets a free win here. Kinda ironic because most Politicians who are transfer supporters don't seem to like Ford and the transfer being questioned was nothing new. This shouldnt even be a surprise

 

[jcam]

No you take it that way for you own reasons. I was addressing the constant mockery of another poster, I don't box people in a "you all". So don't even start to accuse me of that garbage. I actually appreciate alternate plans from other posters but do question any tangible cost or time saving going back to anything that would be realistically accepted.

I do think anyone (mainly councillors and the media) who are promoting the old LRT plan is wasting everyone's time at this stage. The unwillingness to get off this transfer laden plan with zero compromise is only going to make politics worse for those are determined for transfer plans. And as if they didn't have enough warning that outside dictatorship is not good for the City they tripled down going with no other alternates.

All they have done is tried to prevent subway stops to help batter the subway and promote an unwanted transfer plan. Surely that was never going to gain them any support.

If it was REALLY about a transfer, there are more cost effective ways to fix the Kennedy terminus than spend an extra $2B on switching to a subway (and losing multiple stops in the process).