[Ansem]

SRT actually deserves to be on that map because it's completely grade-separated and basically is a lower-capacity subway above-ground LOL.

you're right

SRT would be in the same category as the Montreal Metro and the Skytrain
not heavy rail but medium rail in it's own ROW

and **Rapid Transit**

St.Clair, Spadina and Transit city doesn't count besides Eglinton...

 

[Dan416]

you're right

SRT would be in the same category as the Montreal Metro and the Skytrain
not heavy rail but medium rail in it's own ROW

and **Rapid Transit**

St.Clair, Spadina and Transit city doesn't count besides Eglinton...

Eglinton in the tunnel DEFINITELY counts as rapid transit. A tunnel is nothing if not its own ROW. Outside of the tunnel though, I'm not sure. For the map, they should probably make the tunnel a thick line (same as the subway system) and outside of the tunnel a little bit thinner. Although if they just had the whole thing the same thickness I wouldn't mind too much if the service was actually rapid.

 

[BMO]

I think all the LRTs should be put on the subway system map to show people where they can make transfers to higher order transit, even if they aren't "rapid" they are still of a higher speed than a bus or streetcar. I bet half the time people who visit toronto don't even know about the queens quay or spadina lrts, because there is no way to know they exist apart from actually seeing them or by looking at a full system map, which is pretty much the most confusing map ever. I also wouldn't mind if they put the whole streetcar system inside the streetcar routes. Much like what the subway does for its own kind, the streetcar system could do the same. not showing every map, but just general lines with the major stops and noting that there is local service between the stops.

 

[Dan416]

I think all the LRTs should be put on the subway system map to show people where they can make transfers to higher order transit, even if they aren't "rapid" they are still of a higher speed than a bus or streetcar. I bet half the time people who visit toronto don't even know about the queens quay or spadina lrts, because there is no way to know they exist apart from actually seeing them or by looking at a full system map, which is pretty much the most confusing map ever. I also wouldn't mind if they put the whole streetcar system inside the streetcar routes. Much like what the subway does for its own kind, the streetcar system could do the same. not showing every map, but just general lines with the major stops and noting that there is local service between the stops.

I'm sorry but it's called a subway map for a reason. It's for RAPID transit. We have system maps that show buses and streetcars. They make far too many stops to put on a map, and don't even have stations. A streetcar isn't well suited to the kind of map a subway map has to be.

So in short, I strongly disagree.

 

[Tuscani01]

I'm sorry but it's called a subway map for a reason. It's for RAPID transit. We have system maps that show buses and streetcars. They make far too many stops to put on a map, and don't even have stations. A streetcar isn't well suited to the kind of map a subway map has to be.

So in short, I strongly disagree.

Im gonna have to agree with those who want to see St. Clair and QQ on the subway maps.

They run in their own ROW and are much faster than traditional streetcar lines in the city. Having the St. Clair ROW on the maps would make it easier for people to plan their routes in the event of service disruptions on the Yonge or Spadina lines. No stops need to be shown on the map, just a solid thin red line that shows that there is an alternative to B-D if for any reason you cannot get to B-D.

You make it sound like it would be a sin to put them on the map, but in reality it would help far more than it would hurt. That is, if it is done properly. (ie. thinner than subway lines, and in the legend mention they make regular stops)

 

[GraphicMatt]

At the very least, they should update some of the stop announcements to include mention of the connections to LRT lines. "Now arriving at Eglinton Station, connection to Eglinton crosstown LRT."

 

[kettal]

I'm sorry but it's called a subway map for a reason. It's for RAPID transit. We have system maps that show buses and streetcars. They make far too many stops to put on a map, and don't even have stations. A streetcar isn't well suited to the kind of map a subway map has to be.

So in short, I strongly disagree.

I guess Prague, Melbourne, and so many German cities didn't get this memo, they all have tram maps much like our subway maps.

 

[kEiThZ]

^ In Germany, their schnellbahn-netzplan (rapid transit map) often show just U-Bahn and S-Bahn lines. Trams/LRTs are shown in a tramnetzplan (tram plan) and are shown on a system map where trams are shown just like buses.

Munich's maps are an example:

http://www.mvg-mobil.de/netzplaene.htm

In the case of Toronto, if we are going to put all the LRTs on the map, should we not put all of Toronto's streetcar lines on the map as well?

 

[Dan416]

Im gonna have to agree with those who want to see St. Clair and QQ on the subway maps.

They run in their own ROW and are much faster than traditional streetcar lines in the city. Having the St. Clair ROW on the maps would make it easier for people to plan their routes in the event of service disruptions on the Yonge or Spadina lines. No stops need to be shown on the map, just a solid thin red line that shows that there is an alternative to B-D if for any reason you cannot get to B-D.

You make it sound like it would be a sin to put them on the map, but in reality it would help far more than it would hurt. That is, if it is done properly. (ie. thinner than subway lines, and in the legend mention they make regular stops)

The QQ line isn't that fast. Have you ridden it when there's a TFC game? St. Clair I haven't been on ever, but the ROW isn't even complete yet, and everyone says the time savings is only 5 minutes anyway. Unless the times are actually rapid, I wouldn't put them on the map. It'd be false advertising. Seeing something on a subway map makes you expect subway-like service. That's why people object to GO being on the map, because the service is either hourly (on Lakeshore) or only during the commuting times (every other line).

 

[taal]

The QQ line isn't that fast. Have you ridden it when there's a TFC game? St. Clair I haven't been on ever, but the ROW isn't even complete yet, and everyone says the time savings is only 5 minutes anyway. Unless the times are actually rapid, I wouldn't put them on the map. It'd be false advertising. Seeing something on a subway map makes you expect subway-like service. That's why people object to GO being on the map, because the service is either hourly (on Lakeshore) or only during the commuting times (every other line).

How can you judge so early ... the ROW has only been completed to spadia ... last time I checked all the action in terms of bars and what not takes place after this. We'll really need to wait and see.

But, I agree - anywhere where's there an underground (connecting) transfer to a ROW thing ... bus or streetcar, it might be useful to include it on the map.

 

[Calrissian]

I guess Prague, Melbourne, and so many German cities didn't get this memo, they all have tram maps much like our subway maps.

Or even closer to home, the Green line in Boston (not to mention the BRT new silver line), which is essentially street cars running underground downtown then on surface ROWs in more residential areas..

We should definitely be adding these (and the new LRT) lines to our maps, that should appear in both subways/lrt cars & stations/stops.

As a tourist, I find it very assuring and useful when trams/lrts are integrated into the subway map... Most don't care that its a different mode, so long as they can map out their route.

Buses, don't easily translate into this category because often they can have multiple routes/destinations on the same stretch before splitting off into some other tangent. Which makes it 1) too hard to represent on a subway map 2)too daunting for users to want to take it... buses are for locals familiar with the territory.

knowing the LRT is a fixed route, makes it something that can be represented (although in its own specific way identifying it as an LRT) alongside our subways.

 

[Dan416]

Or even closer to home, the Green line in Boston (not to mention the BRT new silver line), which is essentially street cars running underground downtown then on surface ROWs in more residential areas..

We should definitely be adding these (and the new LRT) lines to our maps, that should appear in both subways/lrt cars & stations/stops.

As a tourist, I find it very assuring and useful when trams/lrts are integrated into the subway map... Most don't care that its a different mode, so long as they can map out their route.

Buses, don't easily translate into this category because often they can have multiple routes/destinations on the same stretch before splitting off into some other tangent. Which makes it 1) too hard to represent on a subway map 2)too daunting for users to want to take it... buses are for locals familiar with the territory.

knowing the LRT is a fixed route, makes it something that can be represented (although in its own specific way identifying it as an LRT) alongside our subways.

Interesting that you should mention the Green Line, as the Green Line doesn't even show all the stops since there's so many of them.

 

[kettal]

Interesting that you should mention the Green Line, as the Green Line doesn't even show all the stops since there's so many of them.

of course. You'd never fit all the stations into the ttc subway map, but thin red lines showing the connections will be good.

 

[Jaye101]

^^ Definetely. It's interesting that Queens Quay station isn't on the map, even though its served by streetcars. If the RT was built as a streetcar line would it have been on the subway map like today?

 

[superman]

^^ Definetely. It's interesting that Queens Quay station isn't on the map, even though its served by streetcars. If the RT was built as a streetcar line would it have been on the subway map like today?

I don't think anything that is not grade-separated should be on the map since the map shows routes for mid to long distance travel, not local routes that stop at red lights. Also, there would just be too many stations on the map.

Although we could follow Hong Kong's example of putting LRT on the system map with just the lines and no stops (the goldish lines on the top left)

http://ilac2009.elc.polyu.edu.hk/images/ilac2009/mtr_map.jpg

This brings me to another point, that world class cities like Hong Kong use light rail for local travel, and leaves the mid to long distance travel to grade sepeated subways, regional rail, and ICTSs. There is room for LRTs to serve local travels in neighborhoods (e.g. Downtown Toronto, Scarborough), but to use them to go across the region is kind of absurd.