[Allandale25]

How can an at grade LRT cost 4 billion?

The Waterloo ION LRT is longer than this extension, and cost under $900M...

What's the route length comparison between Waterloo Region LRT and what's proposed for EELRT? Also I would assume there's a number of contrasts. Waterloo for instance was able to use an existing rail corridor for a portion of its route. I get that EELRT isn't as long, but will it be providing more frequent service and therefore require more vehicles which also increases the cost?

There was only one great separation as well I believe. So I think it's important to do a fair comparison.

 

[Towered]

Im all for spending tax dollers on transit that doesnt really benefit myself directly, and i love tunnels, but there's a line in the sand.

When will the "Etobicoke deserves this" episode start.

Etobicoke is getting more transit in the next decade, but not enough. Apart from the subway along Bloor, it'll have LRT's along Eglinton, Finch and Lakeshore (Waterfront West LRT) and a new GO station at Park Lawn. Maybe even some BRT's (Steeles? Lawrence/Westway? Albion? Dundas, west of Kipling?). The only things I would add after that would be at least one north-south LRT since all the lines being built are east-west (Kipling being the top contender), an LRT along the Queensway from Humber Loop to Sherway (or beyond into Mississauga), an extension of the 512 streetcar line from Gunns Rd. along St. Clair and Dundas to Kipling station, a 2 or 3 stop Line 2 subway extension to Sherway, a couple more GO stations (Islington, Royal York), and maybe a few more BRT ROW's (Highway 27/West Mall/Brown's Line? Islington? Dixon/Airport Rd.?)

 

[W. K. Lis]

Etobicoke is getting more transit in the next decade, but not enough. Apart from the subway along Bloor, it'll have LRT's along Eglinton, Finch and Lakeshore (Waterfront West LRT) and a new GO station at Park Lawn. Maybe even some BRT's (Steeles? Lawrence/Westway? Albion? Dundas, west of Kipling?). The only things I would add after that would be at least one north-south LRT since all the lines being built are east-west (Kipling being the top contender), an LRT along the Queensway from Humber Loop to Sherway (or beyond into Mississauga), an extension of the 512 streetcar line from Gunns Rd. along St. Clair and Dundas to Kipling station, a 2 or 3 stop Line 2 subway extension to Sherway, a couple more GO stations (Islington, Royal York), and maybe a few more BRT ROW's (Highway 27/West Mall/Brown's Line? Islington? Dixon/Airport Rd.?)

And a north-south LRT along Jane Street, just east of the Humber River.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

These cost escalations are just stupid. I've given up any hope of transit getting built (unless we get these soaring costs sorted out).

Can't wait to see the final costs of the OL and EWLRT which, according to MX, could be up to 50% more expensive than projected (I'm smiling thru the pain)

 

[11th]

From this attachment to the report headed to Dec 10th Executive Committee:

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2020/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-158918.pdf

First, the new recommended connection at Kennedy in diagram form:

View attachment 286497

Second, the City is apparently musing about extending the EELRT westward along Sheppard to connect to the SSE at McCowan and Sheppard.

View attachment 286498

At that point, it'd be more of a "Scarborough East LRT" than EELRT.

 

[Tuck]

4 billion for a glorified streetcar line is absurd. Instead of restudying the relief and Scarborough subway lines 20 times over the past decade maybe they should have looked into why transit infrastructure projects have spiralled so completely out of control, because this flat out is not sustainable. If an at grade, centre of the street LRT project is going to balloon this much, might as well cancel the Ontario Line now cause we're not going to be able to afford it. Insane.

 

[Coolstar]

4 billion for a glorified streetcar line is absurd. Instead of restudying the relief and Scarborough subway lines 20 times over the past decade maybe they should have looked into why transit infrastructure projects have spiralled so completely out of control, because this flat out is not sustainable. If an at grade, centre of the street LRT project is going to balloon this much, might as well cancel the Ontario Line now cause we're not going to be able to afford it. Insane.

Not all of the line is on-street. In addition to the tunnel portal extension as well as an underground Midland Station, the line is also supposed to be tunneled for a short distance in the area around Kingston, Lawrence, and Morningside as well as another underground station. A new MSF has also been added to the project since the line would've used the MSF for Sheppard East. But even then, I agree $4B is too much for this line. This report was an interesting read on why costs for transit projects have been ballooning. Hopefully, later on, the city can refine the cost estimate and find some ways to help cheapen out the cost.

https://www.rccao.com/research/files/RCCAO-STATION-TO-STATION-REPORT-APRIL2020.pdf

These cost escalations are just stupid. I've given up any hope of transit getting built (unless we get these soaring costs sorted out).

Can't wait to see the final costs of the OL and EWLRT which, according to MX, could be up to 50% more expensive than projected (I'm smiling thru the pain)

I thought you've given up a few times already.

 

[44 North]

Not all of the line is on-street. In addition to the tunnel portal extension as well as an underground Midland Station, the line is also supposed to be tunneled for a short distance in the area around Kingston, Lawrence, and Morningside as well as another underground station. A new MSF has also been added to the project since the line would've used the MSF for Sheppard East. But even then, I agree $4B is too much for this line. This report was an interesting read on why costs for transit projects have been ballooning. Hopefully, later on, the city can refine the cost estimate and find some ways to help cheapen out the cost.

Exactly. The extension, although pricey, is considerably beefed up vs the "Transit City" incarnation. So not an apples-apples comparison.

Personally still not sold on the section north of Ellesmere. Not saying the investment is without merit. Rather the convoluted approach of having a line, particularly a supposed "crosstown" one, veer so oddly then double back.

 

[robmausser]

From this attachment to the report headed to Dec 10th Executive Committee:

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2020/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-158918.pdf

First, the new recommended connection at Kennedy in diagram form:

View attachment 286497

Second, the City is apparently musing about extending the EELRT westward along Sheppard to connect to the SSE at McCowan and Sheppard.

View attachment 286498

I know it would be prohibitively expensive, but I wish the Sheppard Subway could be extended further to connect with the EELRT at Neilson/Sheppard.

 

[H4F33Z]

I presume, the city will delay this project another few years due to funding shortfalls then realize how much it is. And scrap it, and will compromise to a BRT instead.

 

[OneCity]

I know it would be prohibitively expensive, but I wish the Sheppard Subway could be extended further to connect with the EELRT at Neilson/Sheppard.

Yes, a plan that would actually connect people and would save paying 5 times more in the future.

There is a small chance it happens now that the line is with the Province extending the subway, although McCowan will still be the easy path to get approved.

 

[OneCity]

This LRT extension makes sense to connect to the Crosstown and sprucen up many long claimed 'priority areas'.

4B tho. Yikes. It does seems we double the construction costs every 5-10 years now?

I presume, the city will delay this project another few years due to funding shortfalls then realize how much it is. And scrap it, and will compromise to a BRT instead.

Possibly, but that game has lost its flare big time. Residents are fed up all over the City because of exact that time wasting and the corner cutting that has cost of billions. This project has a chance to get pushed thru with full Scarborough support on council and now that Sheppard will be handled by the Province no one can play the old game of pitting projects to cut corners

 

[Rainforest]

In all seriousness, Eglinton West is being priced at 4.7 Billion Dollars, despite the fact that its almost entire tunneled, and isn't that much shorter than Eglinton East, 13.9km vs 15km, Half a million dollars per km vs a quarter of a million. That is a surprisingly small difference.

Eglinton West between Mt Dennis and the Renforth hub is only 9 km long. The remaining 5 km from Renforth to Pearson Terminal 1 will run mostly at grade, and should be relatively cheap. That should partly offset the high cost of the Eg West tunnel.

 

[Rainforest]

Exactly. The extension, although pricey, is considerably beefed up vs the "Transit City" incarnation. So not an apples-apples comparison.

Personally still not sold on the section north of Ellesmere. Not saying the investment is without merit. Rather the convoluted approach of having a line, particularly a supposed "crosstown" one, veer so oddly then double back.

The main benefit of getting the tracks north of the 401, is the possibility of creating an LRT connection between the subway McCowan terminus and the Malvern Centre.

Malvern to the subway would become the main LRT service in the area, while Malvern to UTSC to Eglinton would be an auxillary service existing mostly because the tracks need to be conected somewhere.

 

[kamira51]

The TYSSE was 3.2B according to the website https://www.ibigroup.com/2018/01/03...extension-tysse-officially-open-to-commuters/