jn_12
Senior Member
He'll just answer with "the people want subways" and move on. There's little point in challenging him as he doesn't know much beyond his speaking points.
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- Thread starter allabootmatt
- Start date
He'll just answer with "the people want subways" and move on. There's little point in challenging him as he doesn't know much beyond his speaking points.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
The point is to challenge him again and again on that - it's a page off the "if you repeat it enough times, it must be true" mantra.
AoD
AoD
If his handlers are smart, they'll insist on a 7 second delay so they can cover up the gaffes he is bound to make. I'm sure they had wished they had that when he made his "council is irrelevant" comment.
Palma
Senior Member
Because for most people in Toronto its not. I can see them imaging its a subway and once built and they go take it saying its streetcars underground. Plus Rob Ford show campaign on that - LRT underground. He knows "Subways" gets people to notice instead of saying LRT because otherwise he would have been saying people want underground transit and not saying subways. Plus he again said this morning developers are knocking down their doors to build Sheppard subway and that even Dr Chong report showed there are all sorts of DC to pay for them. Finally he admits you need these designated charges
rbt
Senior Member
Then why hasn't he issued an RFP? Build and run a Toronto subway without taxpayer subsidies. He could have 4 new lines under construction today!
Or are developers wanting to invest $100M into a subway plan for a $1B no-risk land donation? Yeah, I'd be knocking at Ford's door too if I thought there was a very small chance of that happening.
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RapidTransit
New Member
Lots of hypocrites here. A while back people were arguing that the LRT underground is a subway. Then when Rob Ford calls it a subway everyone starts calling him a liar? Is the undeground portion on the Eglinton line not a subway. I need a clear definition, specificlly the underground portion. I've seen bridges identified as subways. Is express buses a a form of rapid transit, considered rapid transit? The terminolgy here seems to be defined on how you want it, to make Rob Ford look bad?
Lenser
Senior Member
From what I've seen, Rob Ford needs no assistance in looking bad.
The terminology used in the debate has been used fairly loosely at times, admittedly. But it's been done on all sides. And good luck in getting agreement about even fairly basic definitions of "subway," "light rail," "rapid transit."
The terminology used in the debate has been used fairly loosely at times, admittedly. But it's been done on all sides. And good luck in getting agreement about even fairly basic definitions of "subway," "light rail," "rapid transit."
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
Bang on. The most obvious indicator of Webster's loyalty is the report that finally leaked -- I'd guess through Karen Stintz's office -- which details why subways on Sheppard aren't economically viable. That report was written in March 2011, then suppressed by the mayor. Webster made no move to leak the report or its contents to the media or to publicly make that information available in any way. He wasn't rocking the boat.
As for comparisons to Fantino: Julian wasn't fired.
Paleo
Active Member
RapidTransit
New Member
A known criminal that got elected.
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rbt
Senior Member
Not the first and won't be the last.
JohnCollins
New Member
While I agree with the general sentiment and wouldn't like to see street cars go, keep in mind that the Toronto's subway system is very underdeveloped compared to world-class cities like London, Paris, New York, etc. Toronto is one of the few major worldwide cities that don’t have subway/train between the city core and its main airport.
Dan416
Senior Member
All the terms are extremely wishy-washy, even on UT which you'd expect people to be a bit more knowledgeable.
I think the best definitions are the ones that the everyday person understands.
subway - pretty straightforward, the Yonge-University-Spadina, Bloor-Danforth and Sheppard lines
streetcar - all our 500-series routes
bus - easy-pasy
where it gets tricky is:
"rapid transit"
"light rail"
"LRT"
"LRV"
"tram"
"BRT"
"BRT-lite"
"ALRT"
The Spadina, St. Clair and Harbourfront lines variously become LRT or streetcar depending on who you ask and what point they're trying to make.
I think the best distinction between LRT and streetcar is not the vehicles (since they can and do both use the same vehicles, and they're always LRVs) but the way they're run (stop spacing, all-door boarding, grade separation and/or ROW).
spider
Senior Member
If a transit vehicle runs on rails on a street, separated ROW or not, it is a streetcar. Design, size, power pickup or anything else it is a streetcar because it is running on a street and it's operation is constrained by the characteristics of the street on which it runs. The stop spacing is not particularly important if the vehicle is required to respect the constraints of traffic lights and cross streets. If you choose to call this mode of transit an LRT what would you call the same vehicles if they were running anywhere but on a street, say a Hydro ROW?
Jimmy Olsen
New Member
Hi,
I think the first example you've described would be called LRT running in ROW B whereas it would be more apt to describe LRT running in ROW C (i.e. mixed traffic) as simply 'streetcars'. A hydro corridor would probably be considered ROW A, assuming there are automatic barriers at road crossings and street traffic must yield to LRT vehicles at all times.
I think the first example you've described would be called LRT running in ROW B whereas it would be more apt to describe LRT running in ROW C (i.e. mixed traffic) as simply 'streetcars'. A hydro corridor would probably be considered ROW A, assuming there are automatic barriers at road crossings and street traffic must yield to LRT vehicles at all times.