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- It's super-difficult to add extra trackage even in the single-track trench (you could trenchwall, but...)

As I've pointed out previously, the trench has room for two tracks. We know this because it used to have two tracks.

That said, it's odd that you're going on about the extension to Niagara in response to a post that explicitly said it wasn't about the extension to Niagara. Did you even read what dowlingm wrote?

Have any viability studies been done in respect of extending GO east of Hunter Street to a suburban/east Hamilton terminus? [...] I was thinking more of a single stop with P+R plus storage tracks using the same number of consists given the tunnel constraint.

Now, you're right... Throwing enough money, it would be possible to extend past Hunter, and make it the main route to Niagara area

Seriously, WTF?
 
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Will there be an infill station somewhere around Gage Avenue in Hamilton in the future?

Seems like a big gap between James North and Confederation in an urban region.
 
I wonder if there'll be any regular West Harbour service before then, or just event and summer weekend service.
Regular service, peak only.
The Niagara train can easily stop there too, for summer weekend service, but that won't be its primary purpose.

Reason: It will be the only Hamilton GO station with a 300-car parking garage, for free parking.
No need to clog the 403 (for everybody else) to drive all the way to Aldershot!

It appears that about one quarter to one third of the 1700 cars at Aldershot (which now sometimes becomes full after peak hour), all came from the Hamilton area (Dundas, Lower City, west Mountain)
 
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I wonder if there'll be any regular West Harbour service before then, or just event and summer weekend service.
Regular service, peak only.
The Niagara train can easily stop there too, for summer weekend service, but that won't be its primary purpose.
By summer weekend service, I did actually mean summer weekend service.

Yes, I guess the parking lost will be a bonus ... but when is it all completed? March 2017?
 
but when is it all completed? March 2017?
I think so. The garage won't be there for PanAm. I read somewhere it can also be expanded to 600 cars eventually, not sure what's the absolute maximum limit for parking expansion, but West Harbour is an unusual in that it's simultaneously very pedestrian-walkable while still having enough land for a reasonable free parking garage. No GO station within walking distance of Toronto downtown, even has free parking available.
 
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Hoepfully Zipcar or Autoshare puts a few cars there, as I know a few non-car-owners would love that amenity.
A few car-owners too. I don't want to drive from Toronto to Hamilton if I don't have to! I'd much sooner grab a taxi or car-share at the other end to get to meeting.
 
A few car-owners too. I don't want to drive from Toronto to Hamilton if I don't have to! I'd much sooner grab a taxi or car-share at the other end to get to meeting.
Community Carshare, while not the biggest carshare agency, is present in a bunch of places in downtown Hamilton already...
 
On the topic of parking garages -- Hopefully Zipcar or Autoshare puts a few shared cars at West Harbour, as I know a few non-car-owners would love that amenity at least while Hamilton is still transit-poor.

I used to be a carshare member for 8 years before buying a car for roadtrips, though it ended up being convenient to take me to Aldershot too. Still have my carshare fob for emergencies. We're also a one-car couple and I like zipcar's initiative to put their cars in Toronto GO stations. They already put a few Zipcars at McMaster university, so they've now arrived in Hamilton. If they could bring a few more Zipcars throughout Hamilton public transit corridors, we might never need to consider buying a 2nd car (we are barely wavering on that, but I think we'll remain one-car). Tapping a fob to unlock a shared car and driving it away, at an hourly rate, is rather convenient.

Usually pre-reserve by app a few days prior. But carshare is a flat rate hourly cost, whether in advance or spontaneously. I've reserved real-time spontaneously 30 seconds flat via phone app, standing in front of an unused parked carshare car. A shared car I happened to walk across, and suddenly remembered I could pick up something somewhere, or drive a heavy shopping load home and/or drop friends off cheaper than a taxi. Renting it for two hours at 8 dollars per hour (gas and insurance included) in 30 seconds flat via a few taps on my smartphone, no rental agents! I love car share services for the spontaneous convenience... Sometimes I originally was going to catch the bus but suddenly see the nearby zipcar is free, and book it for an hour or few to speed up my transit. Also, they are great final-mile connectors at GO stations for suburban appointments too, when your spouse is using the single main car (e.g. appointments a few kilometers from Oakville GO station)! They make you think very differently about how to transport yourself quickly in GTHA! (More people need to consider it instead of a 2nd car)

After more than 8 years of solely depending on carshare services (at monthly bills significantly lower than car ownership), the ONLY primary reason I finally bought a car was originally because I needed to make roadtrips/cottage/vacation trips (and only recently, now to drive to the GO parking garage). Then now we moved to Hamilton, where I need it to get around because Hamilton is currently more transit-poor than Toronto. But I'd love to avoid having to buy a second car for the household.

Prefer Autoshare, but I'll settle for Zipcar. Bring zipcars or autoshares to all GO parking garages, GTHA-wide, please!
 
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I think so. The garage won't be there for PanAm. I read somewhere it can also be expanded to 600 cars eventually, not sure what's the absolute maximum limit for parking expansion, but West Harbour is an unusual in that it's simultaneously very pedestrian-walkable while still having enough land for a reasonable free parking garage. No GO station within walking distance of Toronto downtown, even has free parking available.

I am really confused over this fascination you have with comparing GO service in downtown Toronto with Hamilton is.....it really is apples and oranges. But how many GO stations are there at all within walking distance to downtown Toronto? Union..sure, but what value to the network would free parking at Union provide? I guess you could say Bloor is within walking distance of downtown Toronto (depending on your personal definition of Downtown Toronto) no parking at all there....but again (like Union) it is right by those trains that run underground.....there is no need for free parking at the DT stations...none at all.....Hamilton and Toronto (particularly Downtown) are totally separate things.....one is the location the vast majority of GO riders have been/are/will be trying to get to....the other is one of the outlying areas looking for a connection to Toronto.
 
I think so. The garage won't be there for PanAm. I read somewhere it can also be expanded to 600 cars eventually, not sure what's the absolute maximum limit for parking expansion, but West Harbour is an unusual in that it's simultaneously very pedestrian-walkable while still having enough land for a reasonable free parking garage. No GO station within walking distance of Toronto downtown, even has free parking available.
I am really confused over this fascination you have with comparing GO service in downtown Toronto with Hamilton is.....it really is apples and oranges. But how many GO stations are there at all within walking distance to downtown Toronto? Union..sure, but what value to the network would free parking at Union provide? I guess you could say Bloor is within walking distance of downtown Toronto (depending on your personal definition of Downtown Toronto) no parking at all there....but again (like Union) it is right by those trains that run underground.....there is no need for free parking at the DT stations...none at all.....Hamilton and Toronto (particularly Downtown) are totally separate things.....one is the location the vast majority of GO riders have been/are/will be trying to get to....the other is one of the outlying areas looking for a connection to Toronto.
You're missing my point...

_____

I was trying to talk about the unique situation of Hamilton's simultaneous need for pedestrian/transit-friendly GO stations simultaneously with parking-friendly GO stations. West Harbour is a great opportunity to capitalize on this. This is the angle when I said "No GO station within walking distance of Toronto downtown, even has free parking available." because we are lucky enough to find a have Lower City GO station plots big enough for parking, including at the new station (West Harbour) within walking distance of Hamilton downtown (the CBD). So it can simultaneously be a pedestrian GO Hub for the Lower City, as well as a parking garage GO hub for the Mountain. This can make West Harbour a valuable GO station for all of Hamilton, considering the Hamiltionians that drive to both Aldershot and Burlington today. As will Confederation, especially when Burlington parking overflows.

Look at the geometry of Toronto and the GO lines into it, and the geometry of Hamilton. Also the fact there's few good transit options on both sides of the escarpement (a bigger city-divider than River Thames or River Siene). It's literally a massive cliff that horizontally cuts Hamilton in half -- which is why we call the high altitude southern Hamilton area up there "The Mountain" versus the northern lake-touching area, the "Lower City" (which is where all three current/planned Hamilton GO stations are). It divides Mountain from anything Toronto-directionly. So lots of car users as a result. And lots of drivers go to the nearest station with free parking. Bam. It's Aldershot. We need more GO stations closer to Hamilton's car-using population.

What alternatives do you suggest, considering the unique geometrical situation? Build several new railroad routes up the mountain? Expensive ramp tunnel megaprojects? Time-consuming S-curves like our existing Jolley Cut? Yes, A-Line (as a tunneled ramp) could help greatly, GO parking are still a lesser sprawl evil than widening freeways, and bringing the parking closer to them is even better (aka Confederation GO and West Harbour GO). But the clifflike escarpment is tens of kilometers wide, so we have to poke an awful lots of routes into it, to make rapid transit convenient; you see; in many ways, Hamilton Mountain is more stuck with the Car as God, alas, than even Toronto is. And explains part of why many Hamiltonians think BRT is better than LRT. But some of them commute to Toronto by GO, and that presents a challenge for point A to B. Frequently, the word "access" (As in access between Lower City and Mountain) is a hot button Hamilton political issue for many decades.

FWIW, I live in the Lower City, and I would prefer to take transit.
But I'm not a "anti-Mountain Lower City resident" like an "anti-905 snob 416'er".... I lived in both downtown and in Riverdale areas of Toronto before.
I do understand their situation up on their cliff; and I support parking garages at GO stations on the CN route, as a result. So that they don't need to clog the 403 or QEW trying to reach the massive GO parking lots at Aldershot and Burlington. Some of them do, however, need to respect that we build the LRT in the Lower City and not sabotage it, though.

As you can see, I essentially totally agreed with you that Hamilton vs Toronto is oranges versus apples (agreed with you). Toronto is not getting brand new downtown GO stations built with a parking garage. They simultaneously are unable to (which is what I said) but don't need it (agreed with you). I'm merely pointing it out that it's luckily possible to do in Hamilton (and more necessary for Hamilton's situation), unlike for Toronto where there's no room for new downtown GO stations that include a parking garage, though they fortunately don't need such a beast (agreed with you).

Eventually, all will probably be paid GO parking within my lifetime, and/or there'll be a lot more rapid transit ramp tunnels up to the Mountain and/or far more local offices/businesses to prevent long commutes to Toronto and/or countercommuters (GTA residents with jobs in Hamilton) with AD2W GO service eventually reaching Hamilton, and a much more densified GTHA corridor (lakeshore corridor). By that era, the parking (charged or not) could matter a lot less when there are many other options. But right now, for the next twenty years, they are critical for Hamilton Mountain residents who choose to commute on GO, and consume space on freeways getting to more distant GO stations.
 
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On the topic of parking garages -- Hopefully Zipcar or Autoshare puts a few shared cars at West Harbour, as I know a few non-car-owners would love that amenity at least while Hamilton is still transit-poor. ... They already put a few Zipcars at McMaster university, so they've now arrived in Hamilton. If they could bring a few more Zipcars throughout Hamilton public transit corridors, we might never need to consider buying a 2nd car (we are barely wavering on that, but I think we'll remain one-car).

As mentioned, Community CarShare has close to 20 cars in Hamilton - unless you have that much brand loyalty, you don't need to wait for Zipcar in order to get car-sharing in Hamilton.

As for Zipcar being at GO stations, that's part of a contract they won with Metrolinx.
 
This is true. I am a member of multiple carshares. But it's expensive to pay monthly fees for 4 simultaneous carshare services.

I've had to strategically choose carshare services based on the cities I needed to use them in. One can rather use zipcar if that gives me occasional access to cars in both Hamilton and Toronto and GO stations, too. I even also pay for a minimal membership to Ottawa's Vrtucar (roughly ~$3/mo occasional user membership), as I used to live there for most of my life, and often fly or VIA there. I don't always need it on all my Ottawa visits, but it's nice to spontaneously grab a shared car if I suddenly decide I need a car for something, or want to save lots of time visiting additional people or family, Kanata-through-Orleans, in a weekend trip.
 
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I don't think it was so much buried as included to keep Hamilton councillors from that end of town from savaging the announcement?

I think the goal was to please everybody with an LRT and GO expansion announcement. So far I think they have done a good job doing that.
 

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