[BurlOak]

No. The line would have terminals at Dundas West and Black Creek Pioneer Village Station. At Dundas West, there would be a connection to the DRL.

I hastily put these maps together, so they don't have all the new lines on them. But it's a good illustration of what I was talking about.

Weston Road to Dundas West section:

I would be strongly opposed to having forced transfers at Dundas West and Pape.

 

[BurlOak]

This city has a lack of north/south rapid transit. Even with all the new transit being built, the only way to get travel north/south is via the Yonge-University-Spadina line.

We definitely need at least two more north/south corridors. I'd put an LRT on Jane/Weston, starting at Dundas West Station and running north to Black Creek Pioneer Village Station. The second line would be the DRL on Don Mills with a Finch terminal to relieve the Yonge Subway.

I agree with the need for north/south transit.

For east/west, we have Bloor, then 4km north is Eglinton, then 6km north is Sheppard. I think that should suffice for rapid transit for the time being. The key is to make Eglinton and Sheppard as rapid transit and not Local. For Eglinton, that means grade separating the Scarborough and Etobicoke portions.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I would be strongly opposed to having forced transfers at Dundas West and Pape.

About Dundas West, I hate the fact that it would be a forced transfer. But I see no other way to do it. The DRL must be a subway and Jane almost certainly dosen't have the ridership needed to logically support a subway.

I agree with you about Pape. This is exactly why I'm advocating for a Don Mills subway to be an extension of the DRL. It would relieve the Yonge subway and act as an eastern version of the Spadina subway.

 

[Palma]

Then it wouldn't be rapid transit.

So what? Why is that there is no issue with buses running in mixed traffic yet for streetcars there is a problem? A problem for whom?

 

[Rainforest]

So what? Why is that there is no issue with buses running in mixed traffic yet for streetcars there is a problem? A problem for whom?

A problem for riders. They get stack in the vehicle being stack in the heavy traffic, or wait at a stop for a vehicle that is behind schedule due to traffic.

It is impossible to provide dedicated transit lanes on every street. However, if you invest a considerable amount of money in dedicated lanes on Jane from Eglinton to Steeles, you do not want to destroy the service reliability by running the LRT in mixed traffic south of Eglinton.

The most practical option for Jane LRT, is to make it a branch of Eglinton LRT. It would run on Jane from Steeles to Eglinton, then join the Eglinton tunnel and go to Eglinton West subway or to Yonge. Service between Bloor and Eglinton on Jane can be provided by a shortened bus route 35.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

A problem for riders. They get stack in the vehicle being stack in the heavy traffic, or wait at a stop for a vehicle that is behind schedule due to traffic.

It is impossible to provide dedicated transit lanes on every street. However, if you invest a considerable amount of money in dedicated lanes on Jane from Eglinton to Steeles, you do not want to destroy the service reliability by running the LRT in mixed traffic south of Eglinton.

This exactly. Why invest the money in LRT on Jane if you're just going to destroy it by running it in mixed traffic.

The most practical option for Jane LRT, is to make it a branch of Eglinton LRT. It would run on Jane from Steeles to Eglinton, then join the Eglinton tunnel and go to Eglinton West subway or to Yonge. Service between Bloor and Eglinton on Jane can be provided by a shortened bus route 35.

Don't see how this is more practical. It only degrades service on Eglinton, west of Jane when the full Crosstown is completed. Considering how cheap the Jane LRT is, I'd prefer to take it down to Dundas West via Weston.

 

[Rainforest]

Considering how cheap the Jane LRT is, I'd prefer to take it down to Dundas West via Weston.

Your proposed route makes sense, conceptually. But its practical implementation is contingent on a) having spare room in the rail corridor, and b) resolving the issues with mainline rail regulations. Apparently, the existing regulations do not allow LRT vehicles (not FRA-compliant) run alongside with mainline tracks, unless they are separated by some kind of fence.

 

[BurlOak]

Your proposed route makes sense, conceptually. But its practical implementation is contingent on a) having spare room in the rail corridor, and b) resolving the issues with mainline rail regulations. Apparently, the existing regulations do not allow LRT vehicles (not FRA-compliant) run alongside with mainline tracks, unless they are separated by some kind of fence.

The SRT has a chain link fence as separation. Is this really enough or is the intent some type of barrier to prevent collision in case of derailment.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The SRT has a chain link fence as separation. Is this really enough or is the intent some type of barrier to prevent collision in case of derailment.

I don't think that chain fence will stop the LRV from being hit in the case of a derailment. In fact, I don't think any fence would be of much help. You'd need a very large wall to have a chance of stopping a collision.

The only reason it's there is to keep the regulators happy.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Your proposed route makes sense, conceptually. But its practical implementation is contingent on a) having spare room in the rail corridor, and b) resolving the issues with mainline rail regulations. Apparently, the existing regulations do not allow LRT vehicles (not FRA-compliant) run alongside with mainline tracks, unless they are separated by some kind of fence.

Well the Weston rail corridor is much wider than the SRT corridor, so I'm sure the LRV can fit no problem. If not, it shouldn't be too expensive to acquire the property necessary to fit the tracks. And I believe Metrolinx owns the rail corridor, so they should be more than happy to cooperate with Toronto.

And about the fence, if the SRT is any indication, any fence from a hardware store will keep the regulators happy. I'm not too concerned about that.

 

[Palma]

Then it wouldn't be rapid transit.

The Lawrence public ROW is much wider between Bathurst and Jane than east of Bathurst. West of Bathurst, it is easy to widen the street and get 2 LRT lanes + 4 general traffic lanes. East of Bathurst, the houses are way too close to the existing lanes, there is no room to widen.

Theres are also homes west of Bathurst. Between Caledonia and Keele, GO travels and how are you going to widen that stretch with the bridge overhead?
Again homes on the north side of Lawrence that stops a little before Keele St. From west of keele , you have a firehall, library, community centre - so how are you going to get additional room for LRT?

 

[Rainforest]

Theres are also homes west of Bathurst. Between Caledonia and Keele, GO travels and how are you going to widen that stretch with the bridge overhead?
Again homes on the north side of Lawrence that stops a little before Keele St. From west of keele , you have a firehall, library, community centre - so how are you going to get additional room for LRT?

I looked at the MapIt site; check the Properties checkbox. Between Bathurst and Jane, the distances between the property lines are 28 m or more; and the distances between the buildings are 36 m or more. Six lanes of traffic, including 2 LRT lanes, will easily fit between the buildings.

The only potential problem is the Newmarket Sub underpass. I seem to remember that there are 6 traffic lanes under that bridge, in that case 2 LRT lanes will easily fit. If it is not the case, you can try some sort of traffic signals that alternate between LRT and general traffic under the bridge. So, the lanes will be shared for a short stretch, but LRT and cars will take turns using them.

 

[Palma]

I looked at the MapIt site; check the Properties checkbox. Between Bathurst and Jane, the distances between the property lines are 28 m or more; and the distances between the buildings are 36 m or more. Six lanes of traffic, including 2 LRT lanes, will easily fit between the buildings.

The only potential problem is the Newmarket Sub underpass. I seem to remember that there are 6 traffic lanes under that bridge, in that case 2 LRT lanes will easily fit. If it is not the case, you can try some sort of traffic signals that alternate between LRT and general traffic under the bridge. So, the lanes will be shared for a short stretch, but LRT and cars will take turns using them.

Really! So tell me how you are going to move those condos on lawrence being built now at Lawrence on north side, the Church on the south side of Lawrence and I could go on

 

[Rainforest]

Really! So tell me how you are going to move those condos on lawrence being built now at Lawrence on north side, the Church on the south side of Lawrence and I could go on

New construction can narrow the ROW and prevent installation of dedicated transit lanes. The city has a history of such short-sightedness.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I think that an Ellesmere/York Mills/Wilson BRT is a much better idea than the Lawrence LRT. It's the one in dark blue, feel free to ignore everything else.

The Wilson and Ellesmere portions of this line have already been officially proposed, in the OneCity transit plan. Though, the Wilson BRT in One City inexplicably ends at Keele.

Anyways, the benefits of this, versus a Lawrence LRT:

1. Cheaper. It should be a fraction of the cost of the LRT
2. More appropriate technology. Whether or not it's on Lawrence or Ellesmere/York Mills/Wilson, a BRT will have more than enough capacity.
3. Solves the issue with the "missing" section of Lawrence.
4. Brings RT to central Scarborough. An alignment on Lawrence would completely miss this.
5. RT connection from central Scarborough, directly to the Danforth Subway/SRT and the potential Don Mills Subway/LRT
6. Another "bridge" between Spadina and Yonge subways.
7. RT connection to potential Jane LRT
8. Rapid transit on Ellesmere will return in the case that the SRT isn't rebuilt.
9. Can go branch off on Markham to bring RT to Centennial.