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Solaris said:
will the Presto card ever go beyond the 'pilot project' stage and found only in Union station for TTC ?? I just hope smart cards will be implemented before 2020 (sigh) :(
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It will be implemented fully in the 905 and GO by the end of 2010. If I were a betting man, I would put my money on it being used system-wide on the TTC by the time the new streetcars (actual production model) begin arriving. 2011 to 2012 range.

I have no source, this is just my gut.

But the real question is will it be region-wide fare integration, or will it just be an electronic version of the very same system we have now?
 
Solaris said:
will the Presto card ever go beyond the 'pilot project' stage and found only in Union station for TTC ?? I just hope smart cards will be implemented before 2020 (sigh) :(
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The implementation schedule is here - http://www.prestocard.ca/en/when

However, the TTC is still looking for someone to cover the full $300 million or so implementation cost.

The current pilot ends this month, so the existing unit at Union will vanish, and should be replaced with a permanent implementation in fall 2009.

Sometime before 2020 I expect - but before 2015?
 
Personally, i think this is a project of regional significance so I feel that Metrolinx should be the primary contributer. But, that should come with the power to make changes to the fare system.
 
I think the seven years comes from a cash-flow issue.

$300 million at 7 years is under $50 million a year, which is much more affordable than $100 million a year to do it alone in 3 years. If someone (like Metrolinx) contributes on top of the TTC's $50 million, then it can be completed much faster.
 
Its not just a money issue. Its dealing with the complexities of designing the system and ensuring it is foward compatible for generations to come.

Montreal started their RFP in 2001 and only now in 2008-09 are they ready to launch.

Joel Gauthier stressed the importance of not rushing.

Don't expect GTA wide smart card to be ready before 2012. And if it is, it probably won't be a good system.
 
The concern we have is when the 7 years start. Is it seven years from now, or 7 years from the start of the TTC's existing commitment?
 
acetradamus said:
Its not just a money issue. Its dealing with the complexities of designing the system and ensuring it is foward compatible for generations to come.

Montreal started their RFP in 2001 and only now in 2008-09 are they ready to launch.

Joel Gauthier stressed the importance of not rushing.

Don't expect GTA wide smart card to be ready before 2012. And if it is, it probably won't be a good system.
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Why not 2012 considering this has been on going for 10 years now?

The pilot project has just completed this month with the system and users.

First full roll out is in the fall of 2009 for GO, Mississauga and Burlington. Burlington had a smartcard until last year and it was close to what is going to be roll out.

The issue is the fare structure. Until the fare structure is set, it will be business as usually between the 905 systems. Since all 905 systems have 90/120 minute transfer service, then it becomes a time base system for travel distance and use.
 
RedRocket191 said:
I think the seven years comes from a cash-flow issue.

$300 million at 7 years is under $50 million a year, which is much more affordable than $100 million a year to do it alone in 3 years. If someone (like Metrolinx) contributes on top of the TTC's $50 million, then it can be completed much faster.
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There is already $160 million for TTC smartcard under the Billion Dollar Deal that was back end by the Sr levels.

If AMT can build a system that is larger than TTC, deals with 14 systems, has 12 service centres for $158, there is no reason why TTC has to take more than 3 years to get their system up and running on their own fare structure at the same cost.

TTC is playing the game of reinventing the wheel and crying poor old me. Metrolinx or the government needs to step in within the next 6 months and say this is the way it's going to be and eat it to TTC.

It cost TTC over a $100,000 for the pass machines as in-house design when they could gone to the market and got them at $60,000. Those machines cannot use all the trans action that the the $60,000 can do today let alone down the road.

It's time TTC gets in to the 21st and leave the 19's thinking behind as it costing them 10's of million yearly now.
 
drum118 said:
If AMT can build a system that is larger than TTC, deals with 14 systems, has 12 service centres for $158, there is no reason why TTC has to take more than 3 years to get their system up and running on their own fare structure at the same cost.
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TTC has been participating in Presto decision-making meetings. Given that a common system is being built that will already have support for subway system entrances and buses (courtesy of all of the other systems), it is hard to see what specific TTC requirements would result in the delay. True, they would have to install on many many vehicles but that should just be a scale-up of what was already intended. I can't see it adding all that much time to the timeframe.
 
Card Readers Removed from Union

Just noticed yesterday, the Presto card readers at union have been removed. I cannot seem to derive a reasonable explanation for this from any source of knowledge or logic...
 
hkric88 said:
Just noticed yesterday, the Presto card readers at union have been removed. I cannot seem to derive a reasonable explanation for this from any source of knowledge or logic...
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The presto pilot program is not the final version of the program. The concept was proved, and the real version will be rolled out starting next year.
 
That seems reasonable, however, I still find it difficult to understand why they should choose to remove the reading device, it did not appear to be prototypical.. Though I suppose I could imagine the pilot program may have uncovered some 'bugs' that could require replacement of the equipment..

In either case, I suppose I will just have to wait and see..
 
hkric88 said:
That seems reasonable, however, I still find it difficult to understand why they should choose to remove the reading device, it did not appear to be prototypical.. Though I suppose I could imagine the pilot program may have uncovered some 'bugs' that could require replacement of the equipment
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There are a couple of reasons:

1) The Presto team is too busy planning the production rollout to be able to maintain the prototype program.

2) The original hardware is not the final hardware. I don't know whether there were any detailed technical changes or whether it was simply the external design of the hardware, but the final hardware will be different.
 
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