[AlvinofDiaspar]

Have you any actual data about even a single incident that resulted in a death in this city this year? How far away any of the vehicles were when the victim stepped off the curb? What speed they were travelling? How many seconds would the driver have had to brake? Was there specific evidence of inattention or distraction? Were there other factors that would have caused distraction or affected the driver’s recognition of the pedestrian? Were the sightlines blocked by other vehicles? Were the drivers found to be intoxicated? What condition were their vehicles in? Were their tires and brakes in good working order? What was the road condition? Were there tripping hazards or surface irregularities that might have caused a change or unforeseen in the direction or pace of the pedestrian’s travel? What was the position of the sun and how would shadows etc have affected visibility of the diver or the victim as they approached each other?

We know these incidents are happening, but we don’t know the causal factors. The investigators seldom release their end reports, and the media really don’t follow up consistently beyond the initial reporting of an incident. Some of those investigations haven’t even been concluded.

Your claim that the deaths are “at the hands” of drivers is utterly uninformed. But go ahead, keep up the trolling.

- Paul

Actually what we also know is that there is a direct relationship between speed and probability of death. That's why speed limit exists - it is not meant to be a solution to all those other issues/causes you have mentioned.

AoD

 

[tiffer24]

A 17-year-old teenage male driver has been charged in connection with a two-car crash in the Don Mills area last month where a female passenger was killed.

Police said that on Nov. 25, a Mazda 3 sedan was heading northbound on Don Mills Road just after 12 p.m. when it collided with a taxi cab that was turning east onto Green Belt Drive.

The Mazda then struck a hydro pole.

Police said a 17-year-old girl sitting in the back seat of the Mazda was found without vital signs and then later pronounced dead. Three other occupants of the Mazda suffered serious injuries.

The driver of the taxi was not hurt in the collision.

On Wednesday, police said they arrested the driver of the Mazda and charged him with criminal negligence causing death and careless driving causing death.

https://www.cp24.com/news/teen-driv...-crash-that-killed-17-year-old-girl-1.4714882

 

[salsa]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1202585235151564800

 

[SunriseChampion]

Legit question: Why the hell do we have multiple speed limits in urban areas? 30, 40, 50, 60, even 70 kph. Why?

Why don't we have three speed limits like they do in Europe? A single one for urban areas, a single one for rural areas, and a single one for freeways. Simple.

Make the urban one 40 instead of this nonsense arbitrary speed limit change every other week. There's no logic behind it.

For example, Kingston Road became 40kph through Birch Cliff a couple of years ago but west of Victoria Park was still 50kph until about two or three weeks ago. Why was this?
Why is it still 50kph through Cliffside? Then 60 east of Midland?

What's the logic behind this?

 

[SunriseChampion]

Sigh. It is like this region refuses to do better on this issue. People are being killed regularly and we are lethargic to the problem.

This is what happens when you have a preponderance of people who aren't capable of being personally responsible to those who are more self-respectful and aware.

These arterial road deaths are primarily caused by what? Cars hitting pedestrians at a crosswalk? Pedestrians on the sidewalk?

The drivers going too fast is only half the problem in at least some of them, no?



Also, let's be real, another part of the problem is driver licensing in Ontario which the city can do exactly piss all about.

 

[Northern Light]

Legit question: Why the hell do we have multiple speed limits in urban areas? 30, 40, 50, 60, even 70 kph. Why?

Why don't we have three speed limits like they do in Europe? A single one for urban areas, a single one for rural areas, and a single one for freeways. Simple.

Make the urban one 40 instead of this nonsense arbitrary speed limit change every other week. There's no logic behind it.

For example, Kingston Road became 40kph through Birch Cliff a couple of years ago but west of Victoria Park was still 50kph until about two or three weeks ago. Why was this?
Why is it still 50kph through Cliffside? Then 60 east of Midland?

What's the logic behind this?

There is some logic to it, some of the time; though changes through the years have made this murky.

In general speed limits originally followed, in most cases, the design speed for the road.

The speed at which most drivers could safely and responsibly drive their vehicle in accordance with given engineering standards.

Straight Roads, with wide and multiple lanes typically got 60km/ph, and sometimes 70km/ph if they were rural or quasi-rural.(low-density, few if any driveways)

Narrower roads, narrower lanes, curves, and higher residential densities all factor in lower speed limits as do school zones.

I agree there are too many limits in Toronto and I think we would be well served to go with 2 limits.

One for strictly local, residential-focused streets, generally with one-lane each way; those should be 30 km/ph.

While I don't think that's workable on six-lane arterials; I'd be inclined to aim for 50km/ph though they definitely are engineered for higher speed than that.

The art is balancing the value of simplicity and predictability in acceptable limits with what roads are engineered to handle and feel like, particularly in low-traffic conditions.

There are all sorts of road redesigns that need to occur no matter the posted speed limits.

But some are more urgent than others, if we are to universally cap speed limits at 50km/ph on non-highways in Toronto.

+

 

[W. K. Lis]

There is some logic to it, some of the time; though changes through the years have made this murky.

In general speed limits originally followed, in most cases, the design speed for the road.

The speed at which most drivers could safely and responsibly drive their vehicle in accordance with given engineering standards.

Straight Roads, with wide and multiple lanes typically got 60km/ph, and sometimes 70km/ph if they were rural or quasi-rural.(low-density, few if any driveways)

Narrower roads, narrower lanes, curves, and higher residential densities all factor in lower speed limits as do school zones.

I agree there are too many limits in Toronto and I think we would be well served to go with 2 limits.

One for strictly local, residential-focused streets, generally with one-lane each way; those should be 30 km/ph.

While I don't think that's workable on six-lane arterials; I'd be inclined to aim for 50km/ph though they definitely are engineered for higher speed than that.

The art is balancing the value of simplicity and predictability in acceptable limits with what roads are engineered to handle and feel like, particularly in low-traffic conditions.

There are all sorts of road redesigns that need to occur no matter the posted speed limits.

But some are more urgent than others, if we are to universally cap speed limits at 50km/ph on non-highways in Toronto.

+

The suburban roads are designed NOT for the posted speed limits, but so that the speeders will "safely" drive through at double the posted speed limit. The pedestrian safety was ignored in the design, and cyclists were forgotten (except for the herringbone sewer grates, where the potholes usually form around first). The suburban roads could be narrowed to match the posted speed limits AND paint bicycle lanes (except that raised bicycle lanes would be safer for all).

From link.

 

[picard102]

These arterial road deaths are primarily caused by what? Cars hitting pedestrians at a crosswalk? Pedestrians on the sidewalk?

Midblock crossing, left turns, are the big two.

 

[crs1026]

Midblock crossing, left turns, are the big two.

I’m out of town this week, staying in a place where there are signalized crosswalks on arterial roads waay more intensively in Toronto. Sure seems like a practice we should emulate. Requires enforcement, and that’s a lot tighter here too, but way safer. In Toronto, it can be a long walk to the next marked crossing point.

As to left turns, the current law and road design has built in error probability. Drivers waiting to turn get anxious as heavier traffic leaves fewer gaps for turns, and pedestrians do make erratic or unsafe decisions to enter or to fail to clear the roadway just when drivers most need a clear alley. More left turns should happen under a green arrow (providing signal priority to the motorist) and fewer should happen under yellow-at-end-of-cycle conditions, where it’s a race for cars and pedestrians alike to clear the intersection. Signalise such that either pedestrians have the right of way, or the motorist has the right of way, but don’t let the two comingle especially under conditions that induce haste.

Speaking of enforcement, the average salary of a police officer here is $59.8K USD. (I asked). We need to recognize how the public sector labour arbitration process (which is how our police salaries get set, in truth) has allowed the cost of a traffic officer to rise beyond affordability.

- Paul

 

[picard102]

As to left turns, the current law and road design has built in error probability. Drivers waiting to turn get anxious as heavier traffic leaves fewer gaps for turns, and pedestrians do make erratic or unsafe decisions to enter or to fail to clear the roadway just when drivers most need a clear alley. More left turns should happen under a green arrow (providing signal priority to the motorist) and fewer should happen under yellow-at-end-of-cycle conditions, where it’s a race for cars and pedestrians alike to clear the intersection. Signalise such that either pedestrians have the right of way, or the motorist has the right of way, but don’t let the two comingle especially under conditions that induce haste.

Feels like there was more time to clear before the countdowns on pedestrian signals were implemented.
Cars weren't speeding up to beat the light, and people weren't crossing while the hand was up.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I've seen pedestrians crossing on a green traffic light, but the pedestrian signal remains with the red stop hand. They didn't press the activation button, because the countdown for the other direction was coming down to zero. "Must be broken," is the excuse.

If the pedestrian signals could be activated by a motion detector (like how the motor vehicle activate their signal), that would be ONE step in improving safety for pedestrians.

 

[picard102]

Removing the countdown all together seems like the easiest solution.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Yeah, right turns on red should be eliminated.
Left turns should be during a left turn-only light.
Speed limits should be lowered and standardised.

I'm a daily driver and I don't see why anyone would have an issue with making it safer out there. I mean, the improvements I mention make it inherently safer for drivers as well.

We have up to 70kph in-town yet our restricted access freeways are 100 (or 110 oooooh, big diff). What brain damaged thinking goes into this?
I get the engineering of the road, but why are in-town roads engineered to allow such high speeds whilst our freeways which are also engineered for speed are regulated downward?

It's ass-backward.

140 on the freeways, 40 in-town.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Yeah, right turns on red should be eliminated.
Left turns should be during a left turn-only light.
Speed limits should be lowered and standardised.

I'm a daily driver and I don't see why anyone would have an issue with making it safer out there. I mean, the improvements I mention make it inherently safer for drivers as well.

We have up to 70kph in-town yet our restricted access freeways are 100 (or 110 oooooh, big diff). What brain damaged thinking goes into this?
I get the engineering of the road, but why are in-town roads engineered to allow such high speeds whilst our freeways which are also engineered for speed are regulated downward?

It's ass-backward.

140 on the freeways, 40 in-town.

Been to provinces where if there is a left-turn lane, the left turn signal operates AFTER the pedestrians and straight through traffic take their turn.

 

[11th]

Been to provinces where if there is a left-turn lane, the left turn signal operates AFTER the pedestrians and straight through traffic take their turn.

I don't think it matters as much if the left-turn phase comes before or after the through phase. At the end everyone will get their turn.